Surface complexity arising out of deep simplicity

**nari** · 29-08-2005, 10:03 AM

This title is a quote from Roger Lewis, author of Complexity.

I would like to take it further, and quote a few passages out of John Gribbin's book Deep Simplicity:

Gribbin is talking about systems - all sorts of systems from the Solar System to dripping taps - quote:

"....what really mattered was that some systems...are very sensitive to their starting conditions, so that a tiny difference in the initial 'push' you give them causes a big difference in where they end up, and there si feedback, so that what a system does, affects its own behaviour. It seeemed too good to be true - too simple to be true. So I asked the cleverest person I know, Jum Lovelock, if I was on the right lines. Was it really true, I asked, that all this business of chaos and complexity is based on two simple ideas - the sensitivity of a system to its starting conditions, and feedback? Yes, he replied, that's all there is to it."

Gribben also mentions John Feynman, physicist supremo, who indicates that:

"...the complicated behaviour of the world we see around us - even the living world - is merely 'surface complexity arising out of deep simplicity'."

How does this relate to physiotherapy? I tend to think we are a bit lost in complexity of management, forgetting the starting condition/s, and focusing on the complex issues arising from a small difference initially.

What do SSers think???

Nari

**bernard** · 29-08-2005, 10:21 AM

Well, Nari, a SomaSimpler will reply first =>

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albert EINSTEIN

The most incomprehensible thing about the world is that it is at all comprehensible.

Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler.

And will add this comment:
If you look at man (physiotherapy) with a microscope then you complicate his behaviours. If you look at him with "man" tools (hands, speech...) thus you're facing to a man that is more understandable!

rajulvasa · 29-08-2005, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nari

This title is a quote from Roger Lewis, author of Complexity.

I would like to take it further, and quote a few passages out of John Gribbin's book Deep Simplicity:

Gribbin is talking about systems - all sorts of systems from the Solar System to dripping taps - quote:

"....what really mattered was that some systems...are very sensitive to their starting conditions, so that a tiny difference in the initial 'push' you give them causes a big difference in where they end up, and there si feedback, so that what a system does, affects its own behaviour. It seeemed too good to be true - too simple to be true. So I asked the cleverest person I know, Jum Lovelock, if I was on the right lines. Was it really true, I asked, that all this business of chaos and complexity is based on two simple ideas - the sensitivity of a system to its starting conditions, and feedback? Yes, he replied, that's all there is to it."

Gribben also mentions John Feynman, physicist supremo, who indicates that:

"...the complicated behaviour of the world we see around us - even the living world - is merely 'surface complexity arising out of deep simplicity'."

How does this relate to physiotherapy? I tend to think we are a bit lost in complexity of management, forgetting the starting condition/s, and focusing on the complex issues arising from a small difference initially.

What do SSers think???

Nari

Hi Nari
what really mattered was that some systems...are very sensitive to their starting conditions, so that a tiny difference in the initial 'push' you give them causes a big difference in where they end up, and there si feedback, so that what a system does, affects its own behaviour
This is exactly what happens in a stroke patient & that is the reason why stroke remains a stroke for the rest of the life.

chaos and complexity is based on two simple ideas - the sensitivity of a system to its starting conditions, and feedback?
if therapists can understand this, stroke does not remain a stroke for the lifetime as victory over stroke becomes simpler then one ever thought.

**bernard** · 03-09-2005, 11:18 AM

Hi All,
Ian Stevens send me the link of this blog and I found that one...

Decisions, Decisions

**nari** · 03-09-2005, 12:26 PM

A good one!

Always worth remembering that a complex system is not synonymous with a complicated one...we often complicate complex systems!!

Nari

**Diane** · 03-09-2005, 03:05 PM

I think you meant Jim Lovelock, and Richard Feynman.
I completely support the premises in the book. No argument from this skin treater.
Diane

**nari** · 03-09-2005, 10:52 PM

Diane
yes I did steal that quote from them - should have acknowledged it!

Bernard,

Yes, Einstein was right too, with his comment on simplicity. I wish some of the papers I try to read would follow some sort of simplicity rule, as well. many of them leave me thinking: What? But they weren't written for simple characters like me, of course...

Nari

29-08-2005, 10:03 AM	#1
nari NeuroNut Evangelist Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: ACT Aust Posts: 7,676 Thanks: 703 Thanked 230 Times in 164 Posts	Surface complexity arising out of deep simplicity This title is a quote from Roger Lewis, author of Complexity. I would like to take it further, and quote a few passages out of John Gribbin's book Deep Simplicity: Gribbin is talking about systems - all sorts of systems from the Solar System to dripping taps - quote: "....what really mattered was that some systems...are very sensitive to their starting conditions, so that a tiny difference in the initial 'push' you give them causes a big difference in where they end up, and there si feedback, so that what a system does, affects its own behaviour. It seeemed too good to be true - too simple to be true. So I asked the cleverest person I know, Jum Lovelock, if I was on the right lines. Was it really true, I asked, that all this business of chaos and complexity is based on two simple ideas - the sensitivity of a system to its starting conditions, and feedback? Yes, he replied, that's all there is to it." Gribben also mentions John Feynman, physicist supremo, who indicates that: "...the complicated behaviour of the world we see around us - even the living world - is merely 'surface complexity arising out of deep simplicity'." How does this relate to physiotherapy? I tend to think we are a bit lost in complexity of management, forgetting the starting condition/s, and focusing on the complex issues arising from a small difference initially. What do SSers think??? Nari

03-09-2005, 11:18 AM	#4
bernard Admin, Moderator... Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: France Age: 56 Posts: 12,013 Thanks: 241 Thanked 135 Times in 89 Posts	Hi All, Ian Stevens send me the link of this blog and I found that one... Decisions, Decisions __________________ Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. L VINCI We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. I NEWTON Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not a bit simpler. If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein bernard

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03-09-2005, 12:26 PM	#5
nari NeuroNut Evangelist Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: ACT Aust Posts: 7,676 Thanks: 703 Thanked 230 Times in 164 Posts	A good one! Always worth remembering that a complex system is not synonymous with a complicated one...we often complicate complex systems!! Nari

03-09-2005, 03:05 PM	#6
Diane Human Primate Social Groomer and Neuroelastician Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Weyburn Sask. Posts: 19,650 Thanks: 1,480 Thanked 3,164 Times in 1,552 Posts	I think you meant Jim Lovelock, and Richard Feynman. I completely support the premises in the book. No argument from this skin treater. Diane

03-09-2005, 10:52 PM	#7
nari NeuroNut Evangelist Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: ACT Aust Posts: 7,676 Thanks: 703 Thanked 230 Times in 164 Posts	Diane yes I did steal that quote from them - should have acknowledged it! Bernard, Yes, Einstein was right too, with his comment on simplicity. I wish some of the papers I try to read would follow some sort of simplicity rule, as well. many of them leave me thinking: What? But they weren't written for simple characters like me, of course... Nari