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The References' Caves You can find there some references about chronic pain and PPP.

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Old 20-12-2011, 10:40 PM   #1
eburkedpt
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Default Research for Pain Management Physician

I need help coming up with good research articles to offer my main referral source. He is a Pain Management Physician and owns a clinic. My wife works for a medical device company in the pain division, and they have developed a good professional relationship.

Upon opening my clinic, he agreed to meet with me mainly because he knows my wife. He told me "I don't care what you do as long as you get results." He has referred me around 15 patients over the past 3 months, all being persistent pain patients. Patients are getting positive outcomes and as he puts it "Singing my praises." The patients have told him that I treat differently than other PTs he has been too.

Today he asked my wife what it is that I am doing to get these results. My wife told him about SomaSimple and how much I have been reading from this site. He asked if I could show him some research because he is interested in what it is I am doing. Of course, I said yes.

But now I am a little nervous because this is my main referral source. I never really want to get into what I do with patients because after talking to several MDs they all have their own opinion on what type of PT a patient needs.

I am asking for help in gathering some research together to show him how I am treating. Any offerings would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Evan
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Old 20-12-2011, 10:51 PM   #2
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I have no idea what you do with your patients but if you educate on pain here are few references

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22133255

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15322439

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12443524

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21721995

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21328162

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20684894
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Old 20-12-2011, 10:56 PM   #3
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Matthew has directed you to some good sources about what to talk about...

I would recommend you do not discuss anything to do with magnets (used in treatment or worn as braclets---for balance of course), subluxations, transferring good and bad energies or altering forces of cerebral spinal fluid. We want to keep those techniques on the DL because most physicians likely won't understand the true power behind them...
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Old 20-12-2011, 11:06 PM   #4
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Thanks for the responses! I do alot of pain education, as well as, DNM, clinical neurodynamics from Michael Shacklock, manual, and movement exercises. I have been a member of SomaSimple and don't know how he will react to what I have to offer. I have talked to several PT friends who were very non receptive and I don't want to lose my main referral source.

Evan
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Old 20-12-2011, 11:32 PM   #5
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Evan,

I would keep it simple. Explain you use pain neuroscience education (show him a couple studies, Matt gave you a nice list), basic exercise and movement techniques that are science and evidence based not a bunch of hocus pocus magic some providers believe in. You do this in a non-threatening manner and allow increase self-efficacy within the patient to get healthier by being more independent and not dependent.

You don't have to win him over, you already did that with your patients outcomes. Make sure he looks like the genius for referring patients to you. Let him know how happy the patients were that it was this physician's idea to do therapy at your clinic and that was the best medical advice they have ever gotten and they were glad that he was their physician. You are excited to continue to work with him and his patients to get these great outcomes.

Those PTs that weren't receptive are threatened that they would have to change their thinking and practice (I had to when I saw things from a meso to ecto perspective). This physician should not feel threatened since he will not have to change anything from what he is currently doing, just keep sending you the patients.
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Old 20-12-2011, 11:52 PM   #6
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Quote:
Make sure he looks like the genius for referring patients to you.
may be the cleverest suggestion of all!!

ANdy
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Old 21-12-2011, 12:08 AM   #7
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Quote:
Today he asked my wife what it is that I am doing to get these results.
Too many times I've heard something like this from pain management physicians only to have them turn around and hire their own PT after the PT who helped them to build their professional reputation refused their offer to come work for them. So much for the "great results".

One of the main reasons we're "dead" here is because the results that we've gotten with patients have done very little to ingratiate us towards our medical colleagues. In fact, if anything, it's further alienated us from them because they have no concept of an interactive therapeutic relationship. They are trained to fix people, not to serve them.

Let's face it, with respect to pain, physicians and informed therapists may as well live on different planets.

Having said that, Evan, I would tread cautiously with this, or any physician. He may be one of the rare exceptions, but I would provide the bare minimum as Kory described above. It might make you feel better to wow him with your knowledge of current pain neuroscience, but I've never seen this come to much fruition with the current medically trained crop out there.

Who knows, he may be angling for a "discount" on devices from your wife. I've developed an inhernet distrust for these guys.

I know, what a kill-joy.
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Old 21-12-2011, 12:08 AM   #8
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Don't forget to show him this one: http://www.biomedcentral.com/content...7015-9-128.pdf (free access)
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Old 21-12-2011, 12:12 AM   #9
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I'm with John.

When money beckons we have no way of winning the hearts and minds of our referral sources. We have to win their wallets - and you know what that means.
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Old 21-12-2011, 12:15 AM   #10
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Jon,
Thanks for insight. He has already asked my wife if I would ever be interested in working in his office. This whole sudden need to know what I do makes me feel very uneasy.

Diane,
I immediately thought of the exact article and already printed it out!

Evan

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Old 21-12-2011, 12:28 AM   #11
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Evan,

I wouldn't worry about him figuring out what you do. Nor will any chump therapist who would go to work for a doctor take the time and effort that you've taken to learn your craft.

But he doesn't know that either. Any zombie with the letters "PT" next to his name will do.

Welcome to the bizarre world of health care where more than a decade of higher education goes to waste in a system that fails to reward achievement.

Did you ever really wonder why that guy, Dr. Gregory House, is so grumpy all the time?
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Old 21-12-2011, 12:49 AM   #12
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Here's another: http://www.archives-pmr.org/article/...stract?rss=yes
The Effect of Neuroscience Education on Pain, Disability, Anxiety, and Stress in Chronic Musculoskeletal Pain
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Old 23-01-2012, 05:59 PM   #13
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Great resources! Like having the run of Wonka's Factory!
My thoughts are that the guy knows you are effective, sees the largely ineffectively served reservoir of PPP patients and sees dollars to be made (and lives to be improved ). Lend him a copy of Explain Pain - still too pricey to gift IMHO - and see if he can see the light of non-Descartian pain physiology. If he does then talk - it could be the start of a great symbiosis.
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