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Old 20-12-2011, 07:45 PM   #51
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Just letting you know that I have signed the petition as well and will try to spread the word around here, if that helps your cause.
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Old 20-12-2011, 08:38 PM   #52
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Every little bit helps, Max.
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Old 22-12-2011, 12:57 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasOrtho View Post
The benefits of something happening outweigh the risk of me getting more spam.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Newman View Post
That's for sure. And you can always "unsubscribe" if you start getting unwanted email. I've signed a number of petitions through this change.org and registered with the site and I only occasionally get emails about petitions they think I might be interested in. I'm guessing it works a bit like Amazon guessing what books you might want to buy.
I ended up having to go in and manage my mail preferences at the site to discontinue having stuff mailed to me as it was becoming increasingly frequent. Now I'm not receiving any notices from them.

The petition is up to 320 at last check. That seems underwhelming to me.
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Old 22-12-2011, 04:18 AM   #54
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What does this mean to US PTs? Anything?
Political opportunity for massage therapists, from Ravensara's blog.
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Old 23-12-2011, 02:21 AM   #55
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Diane,

You may consider starting a new thread for that as I'm sure it will steer well away from Joe's petition. Anyway, here is another perspective on that provision.
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Old 23-12-2011, 02:34 AM   #56
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Quote:
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I'm not sure it means much at all for a few reasons Diane. Firstly, there will likely be major changes to Obamacare in the coming years, particularly once the numbers actually hit the books. Secondly, there's not a huge overlap between massage therapists and PTs anymore in terms of what's actually done in the clinic. I rarely encounter PTs "giving massages" these days.
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Old 23-12-2011, 02:41 AM   #57
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I didn't mean in terms of what's done to patients, I meant in terms of positioning.
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“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

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Old 23-12-2011, 02:56 AM   #58
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Very little for the same reasons I just listed.
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Old 23-12-2011, 02:58 AM   #59
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K then.
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"Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

“Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

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Old 23-12-2011, 03:43 AM   #60
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C'mon people. This petition isn't going to sign itself...
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"Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

“Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

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Old 24-12-2011, 03:26 PM   #61
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Michael Shacklock signed. It's still a pathetically low response but the signers are in good company.

Where are all the students of Shacklock, Moseley, Dorko, Pearson, etc?

Let's see if this link works. If not, I'll correct it later.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/asse...oon-42079.html

(hat tip: Roger Ebert)
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Last edited by Jon Newman; 24-12-2011 at 03:41 PM.
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Old 24-12-2011, 03:33 PM   #62
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Jon,

Thanks for asking about my students. I'll also make sure to alert all the therapists I've worked wi...Sorry, I couldn't keep a straight face.
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Old 26-12-2011, 03:09 AM   #63
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Bump... bumpity bump.
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“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

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Old 03-01-2012, 07:47 PM   #64
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Wanted to add another bump with this research study to add some fuel to the fire.

From that article:

Quote:

It is possible that an overly biomedical focus during educational sessions exacerbates these maladaptive beliefs and, consequently, results in clinicians making recommendations to patients that are inconsistent with the recommendations of the CPG, as was observed in our study.
Quote:

The high number of physical therapy students with inappropriate beliefs, despite the instruction that they have received, has forced us to rethink the methods of training students to treat lumbar pathology and to examine its biopsychosocial aspects. It is possible that changing the beliefs and attitudes about back pain in the early stages of training could lead to changes in the most enduring beliefs that could then be applied when the students start their professional practice.
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Old 03-01-2012, 08:41 PM   #65
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Good one, Kory. Provides some validation to my supposition that the only way PT is going to change is by starting with students very early on in their education.
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Old 04-01-2012, 08:57 PM   #66
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Quote:
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Wanted to add another bump with this research study to add some fuel to the fire.

From that article:
And this:

http://ptjournal.apta.org/content/91...ge=1&view=FitH
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Old 05-01-2012, 01:03 AM   #67
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Good one, Kory. Provides some validation to my supposition that the only way PT is going to change is by starting with students very early on in their education.

Exactly.
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Old 05-01-2012, 02:02 AM   #68
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John and Rod,

What would you change in the early education of students? I think a lot of students got indoctrinated* in bone out of place and alignment type thinking early on in their education, hence the problems we have now. While I support the directive of the petition, my concern is that as new information is revealed PTs may struggle with the same inertia problem it's currently experiencing.

I don't think just saying "Most of what I tell you today will proved wrong by the time you graduate" or something to that effect because people already say that as predictably as the small print on a financial transaction.


* I'm using indoctrination because passing tests require PTs to express these ideas. While some may simply know what answer is being looked for, I suspect many others will actually internalize the ideas.
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Old 05-01-2012, 03:41 AM   #69
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My faculty dream job: teach 1st year pathophysiology.
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Old 05-01-2012, 06:37 PM   #70
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Jon, I think Rod is right that it needs to be taught 1st year and then infused into almost every class. I admit being a little over bias in the importance of this information and other faculty might not agree with me and that it would be overkill.

I think starting with IASP guidelines for PT Programs Curriculum is probably the best start at this point.
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Old 05-01-2012, 07:55 PM   #71
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In that first year pathophysiology course that Rod dreams about, in a section on pain I'd include frequent and detailed references to neuromatrix theory. I would continually contrast the traditional theories of PT with the more accurate and defensible explanations contained within neuromatrix theory. I'd introduce the concept of defense versus defect with respect to how PTs have traditionally evaluated postural deviations, and then utlize currently available information on the neurodynamics concept to provide rational and plausible scientific support of defense over defect.

I'd make a clear distinction between the traditional biomedical model versus the biopsychosocial model and relate this to an interactive versus operative approach to care. The role of self-efficacy in recovery from persistent pain problems would be a major theme throughout all clinical coursework.

I understand that this would be a radical departure from what PT students are learning now, and making this information consistent with what is needed for the licensure exam would be the biggest challenge. However, we've discussed here in detail methods to make the journey across the chasm more clinically palatable.
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Old 12-01-2012, 07:03 PM   #72
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Looking at the numbers today, I feel my profession is worth leaving.
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Old 12-01-2012, 10:17 PM   #73
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Yea I am really disappointed by this considering the number of blogs and groups that posted this...I am not quite sure what to think...I wonder what kind of support it would have gotten if i were to incorporate more MFR in schools?
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Old 12-01-2012, 10:30 PM   #74
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You can always try again some other time Joe. Maybe just before Christmas wasn't the best time to try to light this kind of fire. Wet kindling. Wetter than most other times of the year.
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Old 13-01-2012, 06:16 AM   #75
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Could be a timing issue. My personal thought is:

One, many therapists think yea we learned there were c-fibers and A-delta fibers that transmit pain and the spinal cord has some GATE thing that can block pain and that is why TENS works, what else do they need to know why change anything. Isn't it more important to learn what is wrong with the structure of the body to stop those pain fibers from firing.

Two, I'm not for getting politically involved in anything, maybe if it might help me get reimbursed for something or if it is Chiro or some other health profession is encroaching my turf, but everything else I like to just keep to myself and do my job.

Three, aren't they the academic people, shouldn't they know what the latest research is and shouldn't they be doing it if it was important?
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Old 13-01-2012, 06:22 AM   #76
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Quote:
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One, many therapists think yea we learned there were c-fibers and A-delta fibers that transmit pain and the spinal cord has some GATE thing that can block pain and that is why TENS works, what else do they need to know why change anything. Isn't it more important to learn what is wrong with the structure of the body to stop those pain fibers from firing.

Two, I'm not for getting politically involved in anything, maybe if it might help me get reimbursed for something or if it is Chiro or some other health profession is encroaching my turf, but everything else I like to just keep to myself and do my job.

Three, aren't they the academic people, shouldn't they know what the latest research is and shouldn't they be doing it if it was important?
Unfortunately, you're likely right - ignorance and apathy.
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Old 11-02-2012, 03:32 AM   #77
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57 signs this week. This ia compared to 1 last week. Is someone promoting this?
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Old 11-02-2012, 03:41 AM   #78
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It's making another round through twitter. It's getting support from outside the US (I think a few signers and tweeters from Spain).
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"Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

“Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

"In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

"Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire
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