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Old 05-12-2006, 03:42 AM   #1
Barrett Dorko
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Default A question about slouching/reclining

In several venues last week I saw reports about a Swedish study indicating that "sitting up straight" was a lot harder on the lumbar spine than reclining or slouching.

Does anybody here have a access to the actual study?
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Old 05-12-2006, 04:30 AM   #2
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Can't find the study; complied from several news stories, the researcher's name is Waseem Amir Bashir, who supposedly did the study in Scotland, works in Calgary, and presented in Chicago to radiologists. Where does Sweden fit in?
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Old 05-12-2006, 06:10 AM   #3
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Nachemson's work on disc pressure in the (70s I think?) showed a significant reduction in pressure with a slight reclining position versus full upright. Here are some resources that might be helpful.

I think the same studies show decreased pressure when there is some support (ie you've got a back on your seat).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_DocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_DocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_DocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_DocSum

J
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Old 05-12-2006, 07:50 AM   #4
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Barrett,

The problem comes with the "up" comment: Anterior flexion is known as not really good but remains "passive". "Up" involves strength and strength needs muscle and thus increases compression. You get exactly the opposite you're "querying"
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Old 05-12-2006, 12:39 PM   #5
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Here's one of the reports, from Nov. 28, with some graphics included:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...475021,00.html

Maybe the study is not quite published yet. It says the source is the "Health and Safety Executive, ONS." I don't know what ONS means.
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"Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

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Old 05-12-2006, 12:54 PM   #6
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Quote:
Back pain is part of human nature





Diane,

I'm not sure they understood the human nature.
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Old 05-12-2006, 07:42 PM   #7
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Bernard,

The remark was made, after all, by an orthopaedic surgeon.... no surprise there??
There was something done recently to demonstrate a slouch was better than upright posture if there was no back support...but I can't track it down.

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Old 05-12-2006, 09:13 PM   #8
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here is a link I found

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/...tsitupstraight
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Old 05-12-2006, 09:28 PM   #9
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Eugene found me two abstracts - see attached.
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"Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

“Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

"In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

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Old 06-12-2006, 02:57 AM   #10
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Does Sitting Posture in Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease Really Matter?

It may not... according to this study.
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Old 06-12-2006, 04:08 AM   #11
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They says recline at an angle of 135 degrees caused the least stress compared to a 90 degree angle. I say lying down at 180 degree angle will cause the least stress!

I dont know where they goona draw the line to seperate applicability and theory. Not possible to work at such an angle.

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Old 06-12-2006, 06:46 AM   #12
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Spine. 2006 Sep 1;31(19):2258-62. Related Articles, Links
Relationship between low back pain and lumbar multifidus size at different postures.

Lee SW, Chan CK, Lam TS, Lam C, Lau NC, Lau RW, Chan ST.

Department of Rehabilitation Sciences, The Hong Kong Polytechnic University, Hunghom, Kowloon, Hong Kong.

STUDY DESIGN: A prospective study of multifidus images. OBJECTIVE.: To compare the change of the cross-sectional area (CSA) of multifidus in subjects with and without chronic low back pain (LBP) at different postures. SUMMARY OF BACKGROUND DATA: Ultrasound imaging was shown to be useful in assessing acute LBP patients at rest only. METHODS AND MEASURES: Thirty-five male adults participated, including 19 normal and 16 chronic LBP patients. The CSAs of multifidus were assessed on ultrasound images acquired on both sides of the L4 and L5 levels with the subjects in prone lying, upright standing, and 25 degrees and 45 degrees forward stooping. RESULTS: In the control group, the CSA of multifidus increased from prone lying to upright standing and then gradually decreased from 25 degrees to 45 degrees forward stooping. However, a reverse pattern of the CSA changes was identified in patients with chronic LBP. CONCLUSION: Multifidus contracts maximally at upright standing in the normal group, while maximum contraction of the muscle occurs at 25 degrees forward stooping in the patient group. The role of multifidus may be altered in the stabilization of the lumbar spine of chronic LBP patients. Assessment of the change in muscle size reacting to different postures is found to be helpful.

PMID: 16946664 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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Old 06-12-2006, 06:48 AM   #13
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Spine. 2006 Sep 1;31(19):E707-12. Related Articles, Links
Effect of different upright sitting postures on spinal-pelvic curvature and trunk muscle activation in a pain-free population.

O'Sullivan PB, Dankaerts W, Burnett AF, Farrell GT, Jefford E, Naylor CS, O'Sullivan KJ.

School of Physiotherapy, Curtin University of Technology, Perth, Western Australia. P.OSullivan@curtin.edu.au

STUDY DESIGN: A normative within-subjects single-group study. OBJECTIVE: To compare spinal-pelvic curvature and trunk muscle activation in 2 upright sitting postures ("thoracic" and "lumbo-pelvic") and slump sitting in a pain-free population. SUMMARY OF BACKGROUND DATA: Clinical observations suggest that both upright and slump sitting postures can exacerbate low back pain. Little research has investigated the effects of different upright sitting postures on trunk muscle activation. METHODS: Spinal-pelvic curvature and surface electromyography of 6 trunk muscles were measured bilaterally in 2 upright (thoracic and lumbo-pelvic) sitting postures and slump sitting in 22 subjects. RESULTS: Thoracic, compared to lumbo-pelvic, upright sitting showed significantly greater thoracic extension (P < 0.001), with significantly less lumbar extension (P < 0.001) and anterior pelvic tilt (P = 0.03). Furthermore, there was significantly less superficial lumbar multifidus (P < 0.001) and internal oblique (P = 0.03) activity, with significantly higher thoracic erector spinae (P < 0.001) and external oblique (P = 0.04) activity in thoracic upright sitting. There was no significant difference in superficial lumbar multifidus activity between thoracic upright and slump sitting. CONCLUSIONS: Different upright sitting postures resulted in altered trunk muscle activation. Thoracic when compared to lumbo-pelvic upright sitting involved less coactivation of the local spinal muscles, with greater coactivation of the global muscles. These results highlight the importance of postural training specificity when the aim is to activate the lumbo-pelvic stabilizing muscles in subjects with back pain.

PMID: 16946644 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
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Old 07-12-2006, 04:28 AM   #14
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The following is from Ian Stevens: an infrequent poster unfortunately for us.

Quote:
how about a deckchair .....
Can you imagine offices full of deckchairs .....most likely what will happen
is a new range of 'ergonomic scientifically approved' chairs will be
developed . Legislation will be introduced and experts recruited to measure
the angles and individual limb measurements of 'vulnerable' people.
A whole new range of slouching chairs will be developed to assist the
pandemic of insidious low back pain and perhaps new manipulative techniques
will arise to fix people into the appropriate angle of curvature . Meanwhile
future generations will be genetically modified - born with casters instead
of feet and specialist gynecologists will be trained to deal with new
borns who have acquired fixed hip flexion contractures . A whole new western
species will evolve - homosedentarian . The winter olympics will be scrapped
(due to the global warm up ) and we will have downhill chair races at St
Moritz ......
Get out of your chairs and deckchairs it is the only way !
The Chair: Rethinking Culture, Body, and Design

What's wrong with the chair?
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