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For 'em Osteopaths A place for Osteopathy

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Old 28-11-2009, 09:00 PM   #1
amacs
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Default SIJ Dysfunction

Whilst poking about I came across this recen(tish) article. Probably someone else has posted it elsewhere here (I apologise for the repetition if so) but I though it was interesting reading and went much further than many of the other more recent structural treatments/theories although not far enough as it does no more than skim paost a neural element as "neuromuscular"

http://www.columbiapain.org/documents/SIJMechanics.pdf

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Old 29-11-2009, 05:35 AM   #2
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Interesting indeed. It is a meeting halfway between mesodermal and ectodermal perspectives.
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Old 29-11-2009, 07:31 PM   #3
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hmm does seem to reflect a movement to a better or deeper understanding - all grist to the mill.

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Old 28-12-2009, 11:04 AM   #4
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All ostaopathics should know about malposition of sacroiliac and how to correct it. It is very common problem.
But unfortunately most of them don't know...
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Old 29-12-2009, 02:41 AM   #5
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Default SIJ...

expatient,

Could you please provide how you 'diagnose' a malaligned/malpositioned SIJ and how you correct it. From reading the article, it looks like they (osteopaths) are questioning their own conceptual model i.e. subluxation (even calling it invalid). Even with manipulation, there doesn't seem to be any change in 'alignment.'
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Old 08-04-2011, 04:46 AM   #6
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Default sacroiliac

I have a rather long chapter on sacral torsion coming out this year, very close to completion. About 28 pages and 192 references, including Jordan's. It does go into theory and philosophy care and does point to the gaps in knowledge that we wrestle with daily. Will post again when it is released. Erik Dalton is the editor. I think the graphics are going to be remarkable.
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expatient,

Could you please provide how you 'diagnose' a malaligned/malpositioned SIJ and how you correct it. From reading the article, it looks like they (osteopaths) are questioning their own conceptual model i.e. subluxation (even calling it invalid). Even with manipulation, there doesn't seem to be any change in 'alignment.'
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Old 20-10-2011, 08:27 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by expatient View Post
All ostaopathics should know about malposition of sacroiliac and how to correct it. It is very common problem.
But unfortunately most of them don't know...
Malposition? What is the function of joints? Position or motion? Marion E. Clark, D.O., wrote an article in 1907 called "Motion rather than position" trying to focus on function. This was to emphasise the idea that they didn't "get stuck"
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Old 20-10-2011, 08:39 AM   #8
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Malposition is definitely the "trademark" of osteopathic assessment, treatment and re-evaluation. Sure, some models do work on the basis of asymmetry, and their tradition continues to be taught, but as I say, each to his own
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Old 20-10-2011, 08:52 AM   #9
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Chris, please consider starting a thread in the welcome forum, to introduce yourself.
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Old 20-10-2011, 09:24 AM   #10
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The mal positioned SIJ........ I feel sorry for the SIJ. It gets such stick; it’s a small stiff joint that can withstand huge force without moving much. It does so little but gets blamed for so much.

It's just an opinion but I’d bet the leading cause for chronic SIJ pain is us, therapists. Up slip this, down slip that, twisted this way, nutated that way. Unstable here, "out of place there" is amazing any of us can still walk.

Peter O’Sullivan wrote two good master classes on the SIJ in Manual therapy. I will post them when on my home computer.
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Old 20-10-2011, 04:15 PM   #11
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Default Poor innocent SIJ

Couldn't agree more with Dave. Of all the regions of the body that have had a thorough debunking, the SIJ has been the most debunked. So few of the tests to evaluate for supposed problems here have been found to be reliable, and the theories as to how or why it could be a source of problems are nearly entirely unsupported with quality literature. Asymmetry has been found to be the norm, not the exception, so basically any assessment towards supposed asymmetry having to do with pain here becomes moot. Spine. 2003 Jun 15;28(12):1335-9
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Old 21-10-2011, 06:02 AM   #12
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I was just reading over some old Vleeming papers recently, I don't understand how people have read his work and then jumped to the conclusions they have about torsions, slips etc as a 'cause' of pain.

Maybe I'm missing something... probably not.
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Old 21-10-2011, 02:47 PM   #13
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Quote:
I have a rather long chapter on sacral torsion coming out this year, very close to completion. About 28 pages and 192 references...
Why do I think this may be too long, Jerry?
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Old 21-10-2011, 03:05 PM   #14
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The more mystical they make the joint sound, the more expert the tutor appears. Sells more courses by playing on the fears of therapists that they know nothing, and if they just did this one more course all there SIJ patients would jump up off the bed, kiss them, and run down the street singing and dancing as there sacrum was not nutating inappropriately any longer.
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Old 21-10-2011, 06:05 PM   #15
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Dave says:

Quote:
The more mystical they make the joint sound, the more expert the tutor appears.
Interesting. Hesch will be within 40 miles of my home in a couple of weeks so I got a brochure. On the front it says:

Quote:
Finally, a course that demystifies the pelvis and SIJ
.

I've written in the past about the difference between puzzles and mysteries; the former being solvable and the latter remaining somewhat, well, mysterious.

Given the things we can only surmise and cannot see, pain's a mystery. The mesodermal parts (pelvis and SIJ) are puzzles, and, in fact, they were solved long ago.

Not that this makes any difference to those who will pile into that course. After all, the brochure is packed with words and 15 bullet points.
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Old 23-10-2011, 05:10 AM   #16
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Luke Rickards blogged about an important paper a couple of years ago--SIJ fusion and the implications for manual therapy
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Old 23-10-2011, 03:20 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Newman View Post
Luke Rickards blogged about an important paper a couple of years ago--SIJ fusion and the implications for manual therapy
Makes one wonder how many manipulations are still given to fused SI Joints.
And the results of it.

I can only think of one group of people where SIJ dysfunction can occur: during
the final stages of pregnancy.
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Old 17-05-2012, 07:40 AM   #18
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I found Bret Contrara's article on the SIJ interesting.

http://bretcontreras.com/2012/05/the...kes-a-beating/
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Old 17-05-2012, 07:43 AM   #19
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Can anyone possibly share the article referenced by Bret above? I don't have access to it.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21311405
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