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Old 08-06-2017, 11:53 AM   #1
Barrett Dorko
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Default Tension

Mechanical tension never occurs without producing some compression (what is commonly called "pinching") and vice versa. I have never seen one occur without some of the other. It can't happen.

This is as true of the nervous tissue as anything else, and since all pain is neurogenic and has multiple origins, well, you can see the point I've been trying to make all these years.

I've a story about something that relieves neural tension, movement and treatment that accompanies this. It emphasizes several things about manual practice that I think are relevant to therapy.

More soon.
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Old 08-06-2017, 12:48 PM   #2
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A couple of years ago I was awakened at night with both my hands asleep. They were tingling and numb but these symptoms disappeared after stood.

I eventually figured out what was going on. My work since 1980 had taught me what I needed.

Any guesses?
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Old 08-06-2017, 02:24 PM   #3
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Let me try this: What happens to the nerves that support the hands when you stand?
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Old 08-06-2017, 02:54 PM   #4
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For any new members or lurkers: think about what happens when someone's head lies on your arm in bed, and you need to move to "bring feeling back or even muscle action!" (called paralyse d'amour in French). What really happens to that nerve?
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Old 08-06-2017, 03:19 PM   #5
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Bas,

I probably should have said that I don't sleep with an arm beneath my head, I just flex my elbows. Of course, you could have just asked me.

I use more than one pillow because I have a thick chest. It's genetic. Have I mentioned that?
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Old 08-06-2017, 04:33 PM   #6
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Barrett, I knew you were not referring to that paralyse d'amour, but I thought I use a more romantic example of ...well, you know. What happens to those nerves in those circumstances.
Because I heard romance and sex sells.
(iparalyse d'amour is called Saturday night palsy in English - obviously much less romantic)
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I suppose it's easier to believe something than it is to understand it.
Cmdr. Chris Hadfield on rise of poor / pseudo science

Pain is a conscious correlate of the implicit perception of threat to body tissue - Lorimer Moseley

We don't need a body to feel a body. Ronald Melzack
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Old 08-06-2017, 04:36 PM   #7
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The basic idea behind much of what I think comes from Breig's text titled Adverse Mechanical Tension in the Central Nervous System. It was written in 1978 and I read it in 1980. I know, I know, that was a long time ago.

Still, I said to my classes, "Breig was a Swedish neurosurgeon, and after twenty years concluded that tension would have produced the same symptoms as compression. He directed his technique toward relieving that tension."

I understand that Shacklock has reproduced the book.
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Old 08-06-2017, 04:40 PM   #8
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Bas,

You're right. Nothing beats amore in the title of something. I'm pretty sure some songs have been written about that.

I'm being sarcastic.
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Old 08-06-2017, 07:13 PM   #9
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Given that I DON'T involve more than the nerves that support the hands (ulnar and median ones) and that the tingling and/or numbness (commonly present prior to the output of pain occurring) was relieved without standing but by just extending the elbows - What might be concluded?
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Old 08-06-2017, 07:36 PM   #10
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What might manual care have done for my "problem?"

What of strengthening?

What of other origins of symptoms, pain being one of them?
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Old 08-06-2017, 09:04 PM   #11
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The entire hand was numb? Could be bilateral compression at the cubital tunnel with prolonged flexion.
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Old 08-06-2017, 10:35 PM   #12
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No.

Often the ulnar aspect went numb first, often by itself (sometimes left, sometimes right) and the numbness wakened me at various times Elbow extension of the involved side resolved the symptom quickly.
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Old 08-06-2017, 11:58 PM   #13
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so, you thinking that the lack of tension through shoulder girdles when in lying creates a disturbance in your nervous system's default input? And the tingling is an altered output in effort to create awareness?
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Old 09-06-2017, 12:46 AM   #14
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I assume the tingling precedes any pain, and it doesn't occur when I don't flex my elbows for prolonged periods. I don't know how you'd defend it producing awareness. I think that I survive by waking.

I assume that my inability to tolerate as much tension in the relevant nervous tissue is for the same reasons I don't reach like I once did - I'm old.

Have I mentioned that?
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Old 09-06-2017, 01:01 AM   #15
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I'm left to wonder what "tension" in the shoulder girdle has to do with numbness in my hands. Since when does "tension" (whatever that is) rise when I'm not lying down?
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Old 09-06-2017, 01:16 PM   #16
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Does anyone else have thoughts about how muscles contract when we're not consciously using them? How about when we're not able to use them? I've been asked on Facebook about it.

My impression is that "body language" is always emerging, unless we're dead. Playing poker, which involves "holding movement in" and invisible to another's sight is potentially painful. I've been told that holding movement from unconsciously emerging is troublesome. If it isn't, that's because it wasn't needed as much. Of course, this is easy to say.

To me, there's either alive or dead. Perhaps there's more.

We change the amount of tension in the nervous tissue (and, of course, compression) accumulated as we acquire any position. This is why I wrote a three-part blog post titled In praise of recliners several years ago. Recliners give us more freedom to move unconsciously than other chairs. Fashion sometimes interferes with this.

Over to you.
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Old 09-06-2017, 05:52 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrett Dorko View Post
Does anyone else have thoughts about how muscles contract when we're not consciously using them? How about when we're not able to use them? I've been asked on Facebook about it.

Over to you.
I do believe that full attentive processing can take place outside of awareness. I would think then that our unconscious muscular activity would be determined by the cognitive processing we are not aware of.

Cognitive processing does not have to be conscious. Capabilities and behavior of the cognitive unconscious are not well understood. One idea is there are multiple cognitive centers, maybe to be thought of as secondary centers of consciousness.
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Old 09-06-2017, 06:07 PM   #18
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"Outside of awareness" tends to be something known a lot more about the last couple of years. Have you read any of Eagleman's work?

I don't use the word "believe" at all. I understand that humans are comforted by believing in things, so I've decided to ask about the defense of what they "believe." I'm not all that popular for such a thing, and I risk being punched a lot.

I don't know what the difference being "conscious" and "cognitive" is. I use planned and unplanned. Is "conscious" motion planned motion? I just don't know.
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Old 09-06-2017, 08:56 PM   #19
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Might tension in the nervous tissue add to an output of a complaint of pain by adding to the nociception received by the central nervous system? Would relieving that tension reduce a complaint of pain?
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Old 10-06-2017, 02:22 AM   #20
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Quote:
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Might tension in the nervous tissue add to an output of a complaint of pain by adding to the nociception received by the central nervous system? Would relieving that tension reduce a complaint of pain?


Doubtful in most cases


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Old 10-06-2017, 05:03 AM   #21
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Oh.

A complaint of pain is multifactorial. That's why a lot of methods "work." People "love" their therapists because they try hard, are "likable" or some other things - I'll let you figure out other reasons.

Somebody should tell Breig that he was mostly wrong about what could happen with tension.

Of course, tension is just one of four origins of painful complaint. Perhaps I'm wrong about that too.

What do you think?
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Old 10-06-2017, 05:06 AM   #22
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Quote:
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Oh.



A complaint of pain is multifactorial. That's why a lot of methods "work." People "love" their therapists because they try hard, are "likable" or some other things - I'll let you figure out other reasons.



Somebody should tell Breig that he was mostly wrong about what could happen with tension.



Of course, tension is just one of four origins of painful complaint. Perhaps I'm wrong about that too.



What do you think?


Yes I would say the tension is likely necessary but not sufficient for the painful experience.


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Old 10-06-2017, 12:42 PM   #23
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fallingreason,

I think that there's a typo in your last reply. Please fix it or restate it so that I can see what your thinking.

I would say that if you mean that tension is "insufficient," I would say, "What of the twisted finger, the Hammerlock (referred to in the Dick the Bruiser post) or the Indian wrist burn?", recovered from quickly once an impediment to corrective movement occurs?

I use Simple Contact as a method to start a recovery ( and, sometimes complete) from painful origins because of the presence of ideomotion, our instinctive tendency to move correctively and the observations of Patrick Wall - which I've written endlessly about. What it does about the other origins of pain I can only speculate about, mainly because they're invisible. There's evidence though.

Simple Contact depends upon unconscious processes and neural tension as an underlying reason for its use. Understanding why you'd use it requires that the therapist understand a lot. Though the one bringing it actually does little (or nothing) they understand a lot.

What they understand is often boring. It's the epitome of simplicity lies on the far side of complexity.
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Old 10-06-2017, 05:21 PM   #24
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This thread came to me in a dream (okay, via Facebook) and I think it's relevant to this one. It was written in 2012.

For some reason, I pointed toward the second post, but I suggest that the whole thread be read.
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