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Old 18-02-2011, 01:20 AM   #1
JennyMacK
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Default Placebo Effect - Cool video

Check out this YouTube video about the Placebo Effect. Do we need any more proof for mind over matter?
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Old 18-02-2011, 01:30 AM   #2
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What does mind over matter mean?
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Old 18-02-2011, 03:02 AM   #3
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Mind over matter is a phrase that I've heard often. It means that our beliefs and attitudes can affect the outcome for the better or worse. Just like the placebo effect. If we believe that it will help us then it may, but if we believe it will harm us then it may.

It's all about positive mental attitude! A self-fulfilling prophecy.
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Old 18-02-2011, 04:48 AM   #4
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To me, mind is matter, so does it mean the mind-body thing?
That thoughts are crucial before, during and after the process of an intervention?

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Old 18-02-2011, 01:45 PM   #5
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I think the origins of the expression "mind over matter" came from trying to bravely carry on, despite pain. In the sense of: "Don't let the pain stop this training session!"

I know what you mean though, Jenny.

I keep telling patients that thoughts are chemical electrical processes that will have other physical effects, and thus thoughts ARE important - especially in dealing with pain or physical performance.

They usually connect to the example of:
You think about wanting a cup of tea (or insert drink of choice), and bingo: this thought neurochemically causes/triggers your neuromotor system to get up and go and make it.
Other example:
Think about the thing that most angered you, ever - visualize the event in your head....Now check your heart-rate, bloodpressure, tension etc etc.

I have to admit trying to stay away from "mind over matter", simply because it has such connections with "being tough and brave"....
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Last edited by Bas Asselbergs; 18-02-2011 at 02:28 PM. Reason: damn spelling mistakes.
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Old 18-02-2011, 02:10 PM   #6
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It also has connections to telekinesis.

I avoid the phrase like the plague.
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Old 18-02-2011, 02:25 PM   #7
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Default The Birth of Telepathy

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Old 18-02-2011, 02:27 PM   #8
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Great one Gary!!
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I suppose it's easier to believe something than it is to understand it.
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Pain is a conscious correlate of the implicit perception of threat to body tissue - Lorimer Moseley

We don't need a body to feel a body. Ronald Melzack
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Old 18-02-2011, 05:39 PM   #9
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The other day I was unfortunate to have an acute gastritis guess my VAS score 0-10 was 8 o r 9 which lasted about 17 hrs (no sleep) the mind over matter thing I've tried (thinking of how warningsignals are being processed in the brain , trying to visualize different things) but believe me it didn't change a thing!

after the 17 hrs a saw a very good internist : came up with a clear diagnosis and good medication: result within 10 min almost no pain (lucky me for that) part of this could be the so called placebo effect (by the way a poorly chosen name : placebo but I believe that's allready discussed in some other post)
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Old 19-02-2011, 03:04 AM   #10
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A few more thoughts on mind over matter:

1) Distraction can alter your perception of pain. Okay, maybe not an acute gastritis...but maybe?!? Engage is something fun or challenging, something that distracts you from focusing on the pain and often you can do it without the pain occupying the consciousness.
*Purely anecdotal I should state!

2) I use the example of stubbing your toe. If you're having the best day of your life, it will bug you for mere seconds. But if you're having a bad day, grumpy, in a bad mood, etc. you may feel that toe for the rest of the day.

I think there's a lot of evidence beyond this that our cognitions, expectations and even previous experiences can alter pain. In this case the matter is the actual injury, and the mind can have varying outputs from this same nociceptive input depending on the summation of inhibitory and excitatory inputs into the neuromatrix.
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Old 19-02-2011, 09:40 AM   #11
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Default expectation

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Old 19-02-2011, 12:41 PM   #12
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Default RE:

awesome video.

the mention of wanting placebos banned from sports made me think of this: (warning movie geek moment LOL)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D-jPOTg2gk
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Old 20-02-2011, 02:53 AM   #13
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Default Re: expectation

Thanks Ian S for that link! Obviously I completely agree that our beliefs affect the outcome. In the past few months I've begun playing mind games with my clients...I know that sounds terrible, but hear me out!

I took on a caseload with a few clients with chronic pain, and for them you could just tell there was no hope left. It seemed that no matter what I did, explain pain and the whole 9 yards, their minds were made up. Their pain was there to stay, they didn't even want to try what I had to suggest.

So any new clients that I've had since then that struck me as having some of those "yellow flags", I've been using jedi mind tricks on. The power of positive thinking. I have not been deceitful in any way, but have made it a point to educate them about their pain and in a nonchalant way just keep reminding them that the body heals itself and all it needs is the proper movement and time.

In particular I had one lady, a continuing care assistant, with an acute significant cervical strain as well as scapular and lumbar strains all on the right side (pardon the mesodermalese). A lot of "yellow flags". Something about her just screamed "Oh no, not another chronic pain client". Well anyways, I just encouraged her that her pain was normal at this acute stage of the injury and that she could help her body to heal by giving it movement and time.

Sure enough she surprised us all to a full and speedy recovery. That despite quite a setback of about a week when she self-manip'ed her upper cervical spine which was very restricted and significantly exacerbated her pain. Even at that time I stayed calm and gave ongoing encouragement, reassured her that she would have more pain for the next couple days following this but to keep moving gently and go back to using ice, and that after this settled her movements and pain would likely be better.

But then she went to her MD who sent her for x-rays and told her she had a "pinched nerve" from these (?WTF?) and told her to wear a cervical collar and discontinue physiotherapy. Well I was outraged. In my opinion cervical collars are archaic and I haven't heard of anyone being prescribed one in ages! Not to mention that an x-ray doesn't show nerves. And even if she did have a "pinched nerve" there is no reason that physiotherapy wouldn't be able to help with this.

So I called the client and let her know my view on this, again encouraging her to at the very least take off the cervical collar a few times a day to do some gentle range of motion. I also spoke with the doctor about my thoughts and concerns. Well sure enough 3 days later the client's pain and range of motion was better than ever! And she was back in Physiotherapy at her own request to her MD.

Best news is that since then this MD has certainly seemed to favor me for her referrals And I was concerned that speaking out against her recommendations would take me of that list all together!

Who am I to say that this client would have gone on to develop chronic pain? Nobody can know that for sure. But she did have an excellent recovery and even speedier than I would have anticipated. So I'm even more convinced of the power of positive thinking.

For those familiar with the Dune series: "Fear is the mind killer"
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Old 20-02-2011, 04:16 AM   #14
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Sounds like you are cleaning house in your new province.
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