Dorko's Diamonds "Learning from the shadows"

**thrill96** · 14-06-2011, 12:45 AM

Folks,

I"m starting a little experiment with Barrett.

Every few days, I'll post something from our workshop this Saturday. I'm calling them "Dorko's Diamonds".

They'll be little "gems" from the seminar that I hope spreads the message more.

This one is called "Learning from the shadows".

Let me know what you think!

**Barrett Dorko** · 14-06-2011, 12:54 AM

Well, I like it, but that may not count.

**Diane** · 14-06-2011, 01:07 AM

I like it too. Which, I hope, counts a tiny bit. Somehow.

**thrill96** · 14-06-2011, 01:22 AM

Ha! They both count. Maybe twice

**Karen L** · 14-06-2011, 01:29 AM

Great video quality Will. I thought a sticky like "Practice with Knowledge" might go good with this short diamond.

Karen

**caro** · 14-06-2011, 01:51 AM

Good sound too.

Well done Barrett and Will. I am really pleased to see that this is finally out there.

**Bas Asselbergs** · 14-06-2011, 04:49 AM

YESSS! Good to see this - thanks to both of you.

**John W** · 14-06-2011, 05:22 AM

Minute 1:35 is key: "If you understand the theories behind pain, which are well-established, you'll come up with a way to help [patients]."

BB · 14-06-2011, 06:05 AM

Already looking forward to the next installment.

NateM · 14-06-2011, 02:32 PM

This is great. I hope to see how we can make this type of project grow.

I "sat in" on a live course this past spring that was being streamed over the Internet as it happened in North Carolina. I was at my computer here in New York and able to ask questions through the moderator if needed while watching. It was very cool.

Barrett or Will, do you think this type of process would be possible for a one-day seminar like this again in the future?

**zimney3pt** · 14-06-2011, 03:30 PM

Thanks for sharing Will.

Barrett great wisdom as usual.

I had a sense there might be more metaphor from "Learning from the Shadows", so I googled shadows and found this from Jung Psychology in Wikipedia...interesting...

Quote:

In Jungian psychology, the shadow or "shadow aspect" is a part of the unconscious mind consisting of repressed weaknesses, shortcomings, and instincts. It is one of the three most recognizable archetypes, the others being the anima and animus and the persona. "Everyone carries a shadow," Jung wrote, "and the less it is embodied in the individual's conscious life, the blacker and denser it is."[1] It may be (in part) one's link to more primitive animal instincts,[2] which are superseded during early childhood by the conscious mind.
According to Jung, the shadow, in being instinctive and irrational, is prone to projection: turning a personal inferiority into a perceived moral deficiency in someone else. Jung writes that if these projections are unrecognized "The projection-making factor (the Shadow archetype) then has a free hand and can realize its object--if it has one--or bring about some other situation characteristic of its power." [3] These projections insulate and cripple individuals by forming an ever thicker fog of illusion between the ego and the real world.
From one perspective, 'the shadow...is roughly equivalent to the whole of the Freudian unconscious';[4] and Jung himself considered that 'the result of the Freudian method of elucidation is a minute elaboration of man's shadow-side unexampled in any previous age'.[5]
Jung also believed that "in spite of its function as a reservoir for human darkness—or perhaps because of this—the shadow is the seat of creativity.";[6] so that for some, it may be, 'the dark side of his being, his sinister shadow...represents the true spirit of life as against the arid scholar'.[7]

**Barrett Dorko** · 14-06-2011, 05:56 PM

Yes Kory, this is roughly where I'm headed in the Lacuna thread.

I heard about "the golden shadow" while listening to Robert Bly in the early 90s and the concept never left me.

**John W** · 14-06-2011, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Jung also believed that "in spite of its function as a reservoir for human darkness—or perhaps because of this—the shadow is the seat of creativity.";[6] so that for some, it may be, 'the dark side of his being, his sinister shadow...represents the true spirit of life as against the arid scholar'.[7]

Repress your innate creativity- whatever form that may take- at your own peril.

I know many men who've succumb to this shadow, who completely sacrificed their creative impulses to meet the demands of the culture and industrialized society. Worst of all, they accepted a stale and overbearing religiosity, which allowed them to "project" their personal morality and judgments onto others.

Men have pain alright, but they anesthetize it with alcohol/drugs, sex and toys. Women can't get away with this behavior so much because they have to take care of the kids. So, they're the ones we see in our clinics mostly.

The modern man doesn't feel his authentic self.

**zimney3pt** · 14-06-2011, 07:39 PM

We need to go into the shadows to where the person in pain is. As we interact and try to be contextual architects we try to help them come out of the shadows. When one comes out of the shadows they have to wait to allow themselves to adjust to the light, or they can quickly run back into the shadows. If we are equipped with the neuroscience of pain as Barrett points to, then and only then do we have a chance to help that unique individual find their personal instinctive path out of the shadow into the light.

Gil Haight · 14-06-2011, 08:26 PM

My understanding of the shadow has to do with the physical metaphor of something blocking the light. When we stand in the way of the light (goodness, Socrates I) we cast our shadow onto the perfectly authentic subject.
Barrett, your quote in this piece is so relevant because pain science allows us to to accept that what we are examining is real and not something made up by the patient for what ever reason our profession thinks makes sense.
Gil

**zimney3pt** · 14-06-2011, 08:58 PM

Great point Gil, often times, we the therapist are casting the largest shadow onto the patient.

smith · 14-06-2011, 10:26 PM

Sounds like a great idea to me. Keep posting the videos, thanks

**Frédéric** · 15-06-2011, 03:23 PM

Really nice to see you in action Barrett!

Ben Sabo · 15-06-2011, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NateM

This is great. I hope to see how we can make this type of project grow.

I "sat in" on a live course this past spring that was being streamed over the Internet as it happened in North Carolina. I was at my computer here in New York and able to ask questions through the moderator if needed while watching. It was very cool.

Barrett or Will, do you think this type of process would be possible for a one-day seminar like this again in the future?

+1 for a webinar.

**Barrett Dorko** · 16-06-2011, 12:00 AM

If a webinar cuts down on the travel I have to do I'm certainly in favor.

**thrill96** · 16-06-2011, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NateM

This is great. I hope to see how we can make this type of project grow.

I "sat in" on a live course this past spring that was being streamed over the Internet as it happened in North Carolina. I was at my computer here in New York and able to ask questions through the moderator if needed while watching. It was very cool.

Barrett or Will, do you think this type of process would be possible for a one-day seminar like this again in the future?

Let me see what I can work out. That would be much easier

14-06-2011, 12:45 AM	#1
thrill96 Ecto Padawan Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 330 Thanks: 111 Thanked 58 Times in 22 Posts	Dorko's Diamonds "Learning from the shadows" Folks, I"m starting a little experiment with Barrett. Every few days, I'll post something from our workshop this Saturday. I'm calling them "Dorko's Diamonds". They'll be little "gems" from the seminar that I hope spreads the message more. This one is called "Learning from the shadows". Let me know what you think!

14-06-2011, 12:54 AM	#2
Barrett Dorko Writer and Clinician Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio Age: 61 Posts: 12,683 Thanks: 615 Thanked 1,488 Times in 873 Posts	Well, I like it, but that may not count. __________________ Barrett L. Dorko P.T. www.barrettdorko.com

14-06-2011, 01:07 AM	#3
Diane Human Primate Social Groomer and Neuroelastician Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Weyburn Sask. Posts: 19,678 Thanks: 1,493 Thanked 3,198 Times in 1,571 Posts	I like it too. Which, I hope, counts a tiny bit. Somehow. __________________ Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

14-06-2011, 01:29 AM	#5
Karen L Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Victoria Canada Posts: 1,520 Thanks: 37 Thanked 222 Times in 111 Posts	Great video quality Will. I thought a sticky like "Practice with Knowledge" might go good with this short diamond. Karen Last edited by Karen L; 14-06-2011 at 05:17 AM. Reason: spelling

14-06-2011, 01:51 AM	#6
caro Arbiter Join Date: Jan 2011 Age: 43 Posts: 681 Thanks: 1,170 Thanked 437 Times in 174 Posts	Good sound too. Well done Barrett and Will. I am really pleased to see that this is finally out there. __________________ Carol Lynn Chevrier LMT "Beaucoup d'entre nous mourront ainsi sans jamais être nés à leur humanité, ayant confiné leurs systèmes associatifs à l'innovation marchande, en couvrant de mots la nudité simpliste de leur inconscient dominateur." Henri Laborit - 1914-1995 .

14-06-2011, 01:22 AM	#4
thrill96 Ecto Padawan Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 330 Thanks: 111 Thanked 58 Times in 22 Posts	Ha! They both count. Maybe twice

14-06-2011, 04:49 AM	#7
Bas Asselbergs Physiotherapist Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canada Age: 61 Posts: 3,696 Thanks: 841 Thanked 485 Times in 234 Posts	YESSS! Good to see this - thanks to both of you. __________________ We don't see things as they are, we see things as WE are - Anais Nin Pain is a conscious correlate of the implicit perception of threat to body tissue - Lorimer Moseley

14-06-2011, 05:22 AM	#8
John W Harmless creampuff Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New Orleans, LA Age: 48 Posts: 4,643 Thanks: 620 Thanked 966 Times in 436 Posts	Minute 1:35 is key: "If you understand the theories behind pain, which are well-established, you'll come up with a way to help [patients]." __________________ John Ware, PT Fellow of the American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists "Nothing can bring a man peace but the triumph of principles." -R.W. Emerson “If names be not correct, language is not in accordance with the truth of things. If language be not in accordance with the truth of things, affairs cannot be carried on to success.” -The Analects of Confucius, Book 13, Verse 3

14-06-2011, 06:05 AM	#9
BB Arbiter Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Vancouver, WA Posts: 3,462 Thanks: 137 Thanked 148 Times in 68 Posts	Already looking forward to the next installment. __________________ Cory Blickenstaff, PT, OCS Far and away the best prize that life has to offer is the chance to work hard at work worth doing. ~Theodore Roosevelt My facebook page My youtube channel Twitter Neurotonics: a PT team blog Somasimple on twitter Pain and Neuroscience for Manual Physical Therapists Facebook page

14-06-2011, 02:32 PM	#10
NateM Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Albany, New York Posts: 203 Thanks: 21 Thanked 30 Times in 14 Posts	This is great. I hope to see how we can make this type of project grow. I "sat in" on a live course this past spring that was being streamed over the Internet as it happened in North Carolina. I was at my computer here in New York and able to ask questions through the moderator if needed while watching. It was very cool. Barrett or Will, do you think this type of process would be possible for a one-day seminar like this again in the future? __________________ Nate Mosher, PT, DPT

14-06-2011, 05:56 PM	#12
Barrett Dorko Writer and Clinician Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio Age: 61 Posts: 12,683 Thanks: 615 Thanked 1,488 Times in 873 Posts	Yes Kory, this is roughly where I'm headed in the Lacuna thread. I heard about "the golden shadow" while listening to Robert Bly in the early 90s and the concept never left me. __________________ Barrett L. Dorko P.T. www.barrettdorko.com

14-06-2011, 07:39 PM	#14
zimney3pt life long learner, clinician, and instructor Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Sioux City, IA Age: 43 Posts: 1,902 Thanks: 149 Thanked 677 Times in 265 Posts	We need to go into the shadows to where the person in pain is. As we interact and try to be contextual architects we try to help them come out of the shadows. When one comes out of the shadows they have to wait to allow themselves to adjust to the light, or they can quickly run back into the shadows. If we are equipped with the neuroscience of pain as Barrett points to, then and only then do we have a chance to help that unique individual find their personal instinctive path out of the shadow into the light. __________________ Kory Zimney, PT, DPT http://koryzimney.blogspot.com "Study principles not methods, a mind that can grasp principles will create its own methods." - Gill "All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them." - Galileo Galilei

14-06-2011, 08:26 PM	#15
Gil Haight Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 269 Thanks: 56 Thanked 51 Times in 25 Posts	My understanding of the shadow has to do with the physical metaphor of something blocking the light. When we stand in the way of the light (goodness, Socrates I) we cast our shadow onto the perfectly authentic subject. Barrett, your quote in this piece is so relevant because pain science allows us to to accept that what we are examining is real and not something made up by the patient for what ever reason our profession thinks makes sense. Gil

14-06-2011, 08:58 PM	#16
zimney3pt life long learner, clinician, and instructor Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Sioux City, IA Age: 43 Posts: 1,902 Thanks: 149 Thanked 677 Times in 265 Posts	Great point Gil, often times, we the therapist are casting the largest shadow onto the patient. __________________ Kory Zimney, PT, DPT http://koryzimney.blogspot.com "Study principles not methods, a mind that can grasp principles will create its own methods." - Gill "All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them." - Galileo Galilei

14-06-2011, 10:26 PM	#17
smith Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Age: 55 Posts: 539 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts	Sounds like a great idea to me. Keep posting the videos, thanks

15-06-2011, 03:23 PM	#18
Frédéric Swaying against the breeze Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Prévost Québec Age: 37 Posts: 1,880 Thanks: 93 Thanked 122 Times in 57 Posts	Really nice to see you in action Barrett! __________________ Frédéric Wellens, pht «We often refuse to accept an idea merely because the tone of voice in which it has been expressed is unsympathetic to us.» «Those who cannot understand how to put their thoughts on ice should not enter into the heat of debate. » Friedrich Nietzsche www.physioaxis.ca chroniquesdedouleur blog

16-06-2011, 12:00 AM	#20
Barrett Dorko Writer and Clinician Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio Age: 61 Posts: 12,683 Thanks: 615 Thanked 1,488 Times in 873 Posts	If a webinar cuts down on the travel I have to do I'm certainly in favor. __________________ Barrett L. Dorko P.T. www.barrettdorko.com

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