![]() |
|
|||||||
| Notices |
| Clinical Cases Typical cases of PPP |
![]() |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
|
#1 |
|
Junior Member
![]() Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Atlantic Canada
Posts: 15
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
Just saw a 40 year old male presenting with a referral for a right calf strain. Stated that he was on a field exercise and ran down a hill and heard a snap in his right lower leg. He rested the leg for a week, but then began having increased swelling. Seen by a doctor and referred to us.
Today he presented with entire lower leg swelling, pitting edema, cool foot and ankle, and unable to feel the pulse. Sent him for investigations to rule out a DVT and this was clear. Just wondering if anyone else has any other ideas as I haven't seen one like this before. |
|
|
|
|
|
#2 |
|
Physiotherapist
![]() ![]() Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Canada
Age: 61
Posts: 3,696
Thanks: 841
Thanked 485 Times in 234 Posts
|
Compartment syndrome as a result of a muscle tear. Lots of bleeding deep inside the bundles restricting return flow.
When they do a Doppler for DVT, the technicians usually (at least here in town) look for reduced lumen of bloodvessels in addition to outright blockages. If that was done, then my diff Dx is not likely.
__________________
We don't see things as they are, we see things as WE are - Anais Nin Pain is a conscious correlate of the implicit perception of threat to body tissue - Lorimer Moseley |
|
|
|
|
|
#3 |
|
Junior Member
![]() Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Atlantic Canada
Posts: 15
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
Thanks very much for that. Makes a lot of sense. Will discuss with he doctor.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#4 |
|
Human Primate Social Groomer and Neuroelastician
![]() ![]() Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Weyburn Sask.
Posts: 19,678
Thanks: 1,493
Thanked 3,198 Times in 1,571 Posts
|
Stress fracture should be ruled out.
__________________
Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire |
|
|
|
|
|
#5 |
|
Junior Member
![]() Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Atlantic Canada
Posts: 15
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
XRays were clear. Spoke with doctor about having acute compartment syndrome investigated. Will see.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#6 |
|
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Minocqua, WI
Age: 34
Posts: 545
Thanks: 18
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
|
How soon following injury were the x-rays taken?
As I am familiar, x-rays are only reliable for ruling out a stress fx if taken >3 days post injury, otherwise a bone scan or US are more reliable.....I think.
__________________
Stephanie A. Mikoliczak, DPT And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. - Anaïs Nin |
|
|
|
|
|
#7 |
|
Junior Member
![]() Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Atlantic Canada
Posts: 15
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
The XRay was 7 days after. The doctor has also ordered an MRI with this case.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#8 |
|
Swaying against the breeze
![]() ![]() Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Prévost Québec
Age: 37
Posts: 1,880
Thanks: 93
Thanked 122 Times in 57 Posts
|
If the above pathologies are ruled out, could be a sympathetic dysregulation secondary to a direct trauma to the tibial or sural nerve or secondary to ischemia on the nerves following the initial oedema following a muscle strain. Some form of early CRPS.
Compartement syndrome often evolve pretty rapidly and can have dramatic implications. It seems unlikely this was missed until now.
__________________
Frédéric Wellens, pht «We often refuse to accept an idea merely because the tone of voice in which it has been expressed is unsympathetic to us.» «Those who cannot understand how to put their thoughts on ice should not enter into the heat of debate. » Friedrich Nietzsche www.physioaxis.ca chroniquesdedouleur blog |
|
|
|
|
|
#9 | |
|
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa
Posts: 435
Thanks: 149
Thanked 229 Times in 104 Posts
|
Quote:
I would be concerned about compartment syndrome too and would call the doc to have a pressure test done. The signs do sound quite concerning (entire LE swelling, pitting edema, cool foot) and likely something that needs further diagnostic tests.
__________________
Joseph Brence, DPT "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" - Albert Einstein Blog: www.forwardthinkingpt.com |
|
|
|
|
|
|
#10 |
|
Harmless creampuff
![]() ![]() Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New Orleans, LA
Age: 48
Posts: 4,643
Thanks: 620
Thanked 966 Times in 436 Posts
|
FYI: There's a good diagnostic clinical prediction rule for determining whether to refer out for further testing for DVT by Wells et al, which can be found here.
__________________
John Ware, PT Fellow of the American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists "Nothing can bring a man peace but the triumph of principles." -R.W. Emerson “If names be not correct, language is not in accordance with the truth of things. If language be not in accordance with the truth of things, affairs cannot be carried on to success.” -The Analects of Confucius, Book 13, Verse 3 |
|
|
|
|
|
#11 |
|
Junior Member
![]() Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Atlantic Canada
Posts: 15
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
Thanks everyone. All very helpful. The first thing I checked were the clinical prediction rules by Wells et al. Very helpful and he scored 3, which warranted a doppler investigation (which was negative). Although, it did show a hematoma in the muscle belly.
After reading Bas' reply I spoke to one of the docs about the compartment syndrome and they called the orthopaedic surgeon who didn't think it was likely, but they'd check it out for us. I refused to see this patient until he was cleared of any medical emergency. So, waiting to see if compartment syndrome gets ruled out. "Compartement syndrome often evolve pretty rapidly and can have dramatic implications. It seems unlikely this was missed until now" This is usually the case, but this person stayed away from medical attention for 7 days because he didn't want to fail a course he was on. |
|
|
|
|
|
#12 |
|
Enjoy a moment of whimsy
![]() Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,024
Thanks: 5
Thanked 55 Times in 41 Posts
|
Was he taking any medication during that seven days?
__________________
"I did a small amount of web-based research, and what I found is disturbing"--Bob Morris |
|
|
|
|
|
#13 |
|
Junior Member
![]() Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Atlantic Canada
Posts: 15
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
He was taking Naproxen during that time and still takes it now.
The doctor didn't go ahead with the compartment testing afterall. The reason he gave the patient was that he didn't have enough pain for it to be compartment syndrome. He had blood and urine tests done and was told to see us for exercises. MRI is booked for Sept 1. And, he's flying to BC from Atlantic Canada tomorrow. He was cleared to do this but I'm very concerned for this patient. Will let everyone know how this one turns out. |
|
|
|
|
|
#14 | |
|
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa
Posts: 435
Thanks: 149
Thanked 229 Times in 104 Posts
|
Quote:
__________________
Joseph Brence, DPT "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" - Albert Einstein Blog: www.forwardthinkingpt.com |
|
|
|
|
|
|
#15 |
|
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 358
Thanks: 8
Thanked 20 Times in 9 Posts
|
Wow, he was cleared to fly, really? I know DVT was ruled out but not sure I would feel confident in having him fly. I would echo Frederic in his response-could be the beginnings of some early CRPS. I had a patient a couple of years ago who was a police officer, injured while chasing a suspect on the beach, his symptoms started almost exactly like your patient's. I did not see him at that time-I caught him after the poor guy had been to every MD, PT known to man. He still had the color changes, (he was upper extremity), and temperature changes and the presentation you see with the chronic CRPS patients. He eventually got better but it was not a easy case to manage I have to say. Good luck and keep us posted.
Erica |
|
|
|
|
|
#16 |
|
Physiotherapist
![]() ![]() Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Canada
Age: 61
Posts: 3,696
Thanks: 841
Thanked 485 Times in 234 Posts
|
Agree with the CRPS possibility.
The hematoma finding on the Doppler may be an indicator that there may have been a slow seep swelling to full compartment syndrome - has happened before with a couple of cases (over the last 28 years....). Yeah - flying?!? Wow.
__________________
We don't see things as they are, we see things as WE are - Anais Nin Pain is a conscious correlate of the implicit perception of threat to body tissue - Lorimer Moseley |
|
|
|
|
|
#17 | |
|
Enjoy a moment of whimsy
![]() Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,024
Thanks: 5
Thanked 55 Times in 41 Posts
|
It's possible his injury/NSAID use could explain his edema. He doesn't have much pain? I'm surprised he's in PT.
Quote:
__________________
"I did a small amount of web-based research, and what I found is disturbing"--Bob Morris |
|
|
|
|
|
|
#18 |
|
Junior Member
![]() Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Atlantic Canada
Posts: 15
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
Thanks everyone so much for the feedback. It feels really good to hear everyone's ideas and is a great learning experience. I love it.
The doctor's comment about "not enough pain". He's a new grad and has a lot to learn. I thought the patient's pain was very realistic considering he could not weight bear and had a great loss of knee and ankle ROM associated with pain and tightness. Regardless, I know that hurt does not equal harm and vice versa. Maybe another inservice for our docs is in order. The CRPS is looking quite reasonable as well, especially at reading about your patient Erica. Does anyone know how long it takes for it to develop? I did some reading more this evening and all it really talked about was acute, sub-acute and chronic. And thanks for the abstract John. I thought his risk factors would be the uncontrolled swelling, poor circulation, and immobilization for several hours. I'll be really anxious to hear how he makes out. I never thought for a second they'd let him fly right now. |
|
|
|
|
|
#19 |
|
Junior Member
![]() Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 7
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
|
has he had any manual lymph drainage to decrease the swelling at least? go to the find a therapist link on the dr. vodder international website to see if there's a trained therapist near you. once the swelling is decreased you may be able to see much more, and a trained mld therapist can have the swelling down in a few treatments.
|
|
|
|
![]() |
| Bookmarks |
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads
|
||||
| Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
| an interesting case | Sheffphysio | Clinical Cases | 23 | 27-07-2011 10:56 AM |
| interesting case | matt c | For 'em Osteopaths | 24 | 10-11-2008 07:59 AM |
| Interesting case of bilateral arm pain | Erica | Clinical Reasoning | 12 | 29-06-2008 11:26 PM |
| Interesting work/Interesting team | Jon Newman | Neuro? Logical! | 0 | 14-06-2007 05:27 AM |
| New ideas | Jon Newman | General Discussion | 3 | 21-07-2006 05:21 AM |