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Old 08-10-2011, 02:43 PM   #1
JohnFeilDPT
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Question 2012 Shadlock Neurodynamics course

http://www.handsonseminars.com/Michael-Shacklock.asp

In Sept of 2012, Michael Shadlock will be coming to NY to give two 2 day course on upper and lower extemity neurodynamics.

I work in an outpatient office that sees alot of pts with neck and back pain and a good portion have radiating symptoms. I don't have very much success with resolving these symptoms often and a good portion of the ones that don't resolve go on to have surgery.

I am about 80% down reading Butler's Sensitive Nervous system and I am trying to incorporate it in my examination/treatment.

Since almost all of these pts are referred from neurosurgeons they usually come with a diagnosis of herniated disc. I don't buy that this is origin of their symptoms most of the time and I believe that it is an overused diagnosis. Some of the ones that have the surgery, not all, end up still have the same symptoms or slightly different radiating pains/numbness after surgery.

Personally, I would think a surgeon would not want to have a "failed surgery" 2* to not matching the procedure with the correct reason for the radiating pain. But I feel most of them will say " the surgery looks great you have nice space in your canals, you should not have pain. Its all in your head or you ( the pt) must have done something wrong because my job (the surgeon's) was a success.

The point I am getting at is I want to have the best tools to help identify if the the radiculopathy is originating from a HNP or possible nerve entrapment somewhere along it path. I would like to know how t apply the treatments a little better as well.

I was hoping Shadlock's courses might be what I am looking for.

Any ideas?
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Old 12-01-2012, 10:31 PM   #2
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bump

anyone ever take any of his classes?
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Old 12-01-2012, 11:04 PM   #3
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Hi John,
It's Shacklock, not Shadlock.
I've taken a class from him.. what would you like to know about?
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Old 13-01-2012, 12:03 AM   #4
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I just copied the link.. the hosting site mispelled his name.

Basically, I was hoping it was a class that goes over how to apply neurodynamics.

I read through the Sensitive Nervous System and have tried some of the examples in there, but I am not sure if I am doing it correct.

I know he has his own system of things but essentially the movements are similar correct?

What was your overall impression on the course?
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Old 13-01-2012, 12:14 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnFeilDPT View Post
Basically, I was hoping it was a class that goes over how to apply neurodynamics.

I read through the Sensitive Nervous System and have tried some of the examples in there, but I am not sure if I am doing it correct.

I know he has his own system of things but essentially the movements are similar correct?

What was your overall impression on the course?
If you are looking for precision and well-thought-out handling tips on how to apply neurodynamics from an ortho standpoint, this would be your course, and Michael would be your guy.
I've attended the Butler course as well - Butler has hands like butter (speaking from a volunteer model's POV), but he didn't make the same level of effort to teach non-intrusive, non-nociceptive handling in the painstaking way Shacklock does. Or at least did. I took the class in 2005.
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"Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

“Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

"In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

"Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire
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Old 13-01-2012, 12:24 AM   #6
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The course is split into 2 2 day sessions 2 days for upper and 2 days for lower.

Together they cost $999. Kinda expensive but i am realy interested?

Do you think that is over priced?

Hands like butter? what do you mean?

Quote:
but he didn't make the same level of effort to teach non-intrusive, non-nociceptive handling in the painstaking way Shacklock does.
What do you mean by this?

Thanks
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Old 13-01-2012, 12:40 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnFeilDPT View Post
The course is split into 2 2 day sessions 2 days for upper and 2 days for lower.

Together they cost $999. Kinda expensive but i am realy interested?
That's not bad. The one I attended 7 years ago was over $500 and it was just 2 days.



Quote:
Hands like butter? what do you mean?
Butler has good hands. They feel non-invasive, warm, soft, kind, light, relaxing, intelligent, effective.

Quote:
Quote:
but he didn't make the same level of effort to teach non-intrusive, non-nociceptive handling in the painstaking way Shacklock does.
What do you mean by this?
Michael tells people exactly where to put their hands and how hard. He teaches how to avoid common operator errors, to pay attention to not pulling peoples' long hair, for example. He explains exactly how the neck should be positioned. He reasons from a biomechanical standpoint. Personally, it drove me a little bit nuts after awhile, but I can see how ortho types would approve of, and perhaps need, that level of explicit handling detail, especially if they are so busy trying to drive everything into their brain that they blank out on how their patient's nervous system is responding to their handling, if good, nervous system handling is not already implicit to them.
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"Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

“Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

"In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

"Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire
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Old 13-01-2012, 12:42 AM   #8
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Perhaps Cory Blickenstaff can add: he was there too that same weekend.
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"Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

“Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

"In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

"Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire
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Old 13-01-2012, 12:58 AM   #9
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Thanks so much for that response, very helpful.

Even though it is offered here in the USA in September, I am getting excited about it.

Personally, I am one of those guys that need explicit instructions since I usually do things wrong at first.

Even with DNM which I tends to use a lot. I feel I have the accessory n, dorsal scapular n, Lateral Cutaneous N @ Knee, and the occipital n releases down good but the others I feel lost.
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Old 13-01-2012, 01:04 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnFeilDPT View Post
Thanks so much for that response, very helpful.

Even though it is offered here in the USA in September, I am getting excited about it.

Personally, I am one of those guys that need explicit instructions since I usually do things wrong at first.

Even with DNM which I tends to use a lot. I feel I have the accessory n, dorsal scapular n, Lateral Cutaneous N @ Knee, and the occipital n releases down good but the others I feel lost.
Then, I think you will gain a great deal from this course, and from Michael in particular.
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SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy
HumanAntiGravitySuit blog
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Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters, paincasts)
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Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

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"Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

“Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

"In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

"Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire
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