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#1 |
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SomaSimpler
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Targeting Cortical Representations in the Treatment of Chronic Pain:
Mosely and Flor. 2012 Abstract Recent neuroscientific evidence has confirmed the important role of cognitive and behavioral factors in the development and treatment of chronic pain. Neuropathic and musculoskeletal pain are associated with substantial reorganization of the primary somatosensory and motor cortices as well as regions such as the anterior cingulate cortex and insula. What is more, in patients with chronic low back pain and fibromyalgia, the amount of reorganizational change increases with chronicity; in phantom limb pain and other neuropathic pain syndromes, cortical reorganization correlates with the magnitude of pain. These findings have implications for both our understanding of chronic pain and its prevention and treatment. For example, central alterations may be viewed as pain memories that modulate the processing of both noxious and nonnoxious input to the somatosensory system and outputs of the motor and other response systems. The cortical plasticity that is clearly important in chronic pain states also offers potential targets for rehabilitation. The authors review the cortical changes that are associated with chronic pain and the therapeutic approaches that have been shown to normalize representational changes and decrease pain and discuss future directions to train the brain to reduce chronic pain. Keywords rehabilitation, motor imagery, sensory discrimination, cognitive-behavioral
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Marcel "It's a poor sort of memory that only works backwards". Lewis Caroll Last edited by marcel; 23-02-2012 at 06:58 PM. |
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#2 |
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Senior Member
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the paper is available on the BIM site. Every PT should read. About 0.1% will
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Dave Nolan |
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#3 |
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SomaSimpler
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Ever the optimist Dave!
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#4 |
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Admin, Moderator...
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For those who do not want to search it:
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Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. L VINCI We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. I NEWTON Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not a bit simpler. If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein bernard |
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#5 | |
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Senior Member
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In my transition from mesoderm to ectoderm I am still uncertain about terminology and the science it stems from. For example, Lorimer writes in the abstract above:
Quote:
Thanks, Greg |
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#6 |
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Human Primate Social Groomer and Neuroelastician
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I can't imagine he would a) write that himself, or b) let it go by without at least some question. But he's a co-author, not the sole author, so he might have had to acquiesce.
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Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire |
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| The Following User Says Thank You to Diane For This Useful Post: | Greg Lehman (24-02-2012) |
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#7 | |
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Enjoy a moment of whimsy
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Quote:
Sometimes it's tough to tell if people agree whether there is such a thing as _______ unless we have some reference for what the person using the term means by it. Do you have a definition of "musculoskeletal pain" and, even better, a source for the definition? |
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#8 |
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life long learner, clinician, and instructor
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Greg there is this paper: Teaching People about pain: Why do we keep beating around the bush by Lorimer, in which he was the sole author that speaks a little to that.
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Kory Zimney, PT, DPT http://koryzimney.blogspot.com "Study principles not methods, a mind that can grasp principles will create its own methods." - Gill "All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them." - Galileo Galilei |
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#9 | |
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Hi Jon,
You wrote, Quote:
Greg Ps excuse the typos this is written on an ipad and i dare not risk correcting things for fear of losing things |
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#10 |
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Enjoy a moment of whimsy
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I see. Linguistic consistency can be a challenge. In this context my interpretation is that "musculoskeletal pain" is the same as "nociceptive pain" while simultaneously referencing the mesodermal bedding in which the nociceptors of the nociceptive neurons lie.
But contacting the authors for clarification is always your best bet. |
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#11 |
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Thanks Jon,
I like that explanation. I guess my point would be that perhaps it is not such a terrible thing or even a misnomer to label something as musculoskeletal pain then and that such use would still be consistent with what is known about pain science. I would still wager that this is still a contentious usage amongst many here. Greg |
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#12 |
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Human Primate Social Groomer and Neuroelastician
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Talk about targeting cortical representations... check out the webinar (about an hour) by Catherine Bushnell.
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Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire |
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#13 | |
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Enjoy a moment of whimsy
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Quote:
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#14 |
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Swaying against the breeze
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About msk pain. I think there is nothing wrong with using the terminology as long as we know that it's a short for : pain experienced secondary to incoming nociception arising in _________ (your msk structure of choice).
It's usefull to differenciated it from neuropathic pain which would be secondary to a nerve pathology or nociception arising from the signaling nervous tissues themselves.
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Frédéric Wellens, pht «We often refuse to accept an idea merely because the tone of voice in which it has been expressed is unsympathetic to us.» «Those who cannot understand how to put their thoughts on ice should not enter into the heat of debate. » Friedrich Nietzsche www.physioaxis.ca chroniquesdedouleur blog |
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#15 | |
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Human Primate Social Groomer and Neuroelastician
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Quote:
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Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire |
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#16 |
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Swaying against the breeze
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Agreed!
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Frédéric Wellens, pht «We often refuse to accept an idea merely because the tone of voice in which it has been expressed is unsympathetic to us.» «Those who cannot understand how to put their thoughts on ice should not enter into the heat of debate. » Friedrich Nietzsche www.physioaxis.ca chroniquesdedouleur blog |
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#17 |
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Human Primate Social Groomer and Neuroelastician
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Although, tissue is implicit in the very term, "musculo" (i.e., muscle) and "skeletal" (i.e., bone&joint), so there you go. Back to square one.
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Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire |
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#18 |
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Writer and Clinician
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Suppose we were to use the term "physicality of pain." We kow that it must be neurogenic because all pain is. Affecting that with context and movement then becomes our job.
I don't think it would hurt (pun intended) to say, "Iron bars and concrete walls do not a prison make - but they sure do help" when speaking of the necessity of nociception as a significant contributing factor on the left side of the matrix. We can't know whether or not movement in the directions we'd prefer would help, but we can assume it's a decent idea when approached appropriately. |
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#19 | |
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Swaying against the breeze
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Quote:
That doesn't mean that every pain that people qualify as msk pain really/mostly happens secondary to nociception incoming from msk tissues as some seem to imply. It is thus usefull to be clear about these kind of things so that people don't misunderstand what we mean. That's why I have nothing against the use of the word msk pain by Moseley and Flor. He's been clear about what pain is before. And we know Flor's position on that is pretty much like Moseley's by reading the rest of her published materials. I personnaly think putting to much emphasis on the semantic of the use of _______ pain might take some readers astray from the greater picture by creating some disagreements that get in the way of the transmission and subsequent acceptation of the core message. But obviously, our respective tolerance to langage shorthcuts aren't exactly the same and I can understand why this issue might be more sensitive for some while it's less for me.
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Frédéric Wellens, pht «We often refuse to accept an idea merely because the tone of voice in which it has been expressed is unsympathetic to us.» «Those who cannot understand how to put their thoughts on ice should not enter into the heat of debate. » Friedrich Nietzsche www.physioaxis.ca chroniquesdedouleur blog |
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#20 |
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If nociception is neither necessary nor sufficient for the output of pain what factors from the neuromatrix are necessary, sufficient or both for pain. Do we know this? More important, is this even useful to think about?
Greg |
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#21 |
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Swaying against the breeze
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The perception of threat.
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Frédéric Wellens, pht «We often refuse to accept an idea merely because the tone of voice in which it has been expressed is unsympathetic to us.» «Those who cannot understand how to put their thoughts on ice should not enter into the heat of debate. » Friedrich Nietzsche www.physioaxis.ca chroniquesdedouleur blog |
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