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Old 29-03-2012, 02:09 PM   #1
Barrett Dorko
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Default Puppet Strings but feeling free III

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Losing a belief in free will has not made me feel fatalistic – in fact, it has increased my feelings of freedom. My hopes, fears, neuroses seem less personal and indelible. There is no telling how much I might change in the future. Just as one wouldn’t draw a lasting conclusion about oneself on the basis of a brief experience of indigestion, one needn’t do so on the basis of how one has thought or behaved for vast stretches of time in the past. A creative change of inputs to the system – leaning new skills, forming new relationships, adopting new habits of attention – may radically transform one’s life.

Sam Harris
See this thread for more about the power of “feeling free” though the evidence points in another direction.
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Old 29-03-2012, 04:26 PM   #2
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It seems clear that a desire for retribution, arising from the idea that each person is the free author of his thoughts and actions, rests on a cognitive and emotional illusion – and perpetuates a moral one

Sam Harris
How often do you hear therapists speak derisively about their patients who are “fat,” “out of shape,” “just want to be sick,” “don’t do what I tell them” and similar things full of judgment?

Does the therapist think that they’re smarter, more powerful and more authoritative than the patient’s unconscious and instinctive motivation?
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Old 29-03-2012, 05:00 PM   #3
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Barrett,
I think most therapists (who you describe) believe the system they belong to is smarter more powerful, etc. I don't think they would suggest these are their ideas. Don't we hear these same comments from the general public? Everyone gets away with this excuse. "Hey I'm just upholding the rules"
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Old 29-03-2012, 05:15 PM   #4
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I agree with Gil. Blind (and misguided) trust in authority or being smitten with another's charisma or alphabet soup after their name has resulted in an unfortunate lack of self-driven curiosity and inquisitiveness in our profession.

That, and you can remain pretty fat and happy while you sit back and whine about how your patients don't do what you tell them to do.

In fact, you only suffer consequences if you do dare to think for yourself. It may even be lethal.
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Old 29-03-2012, 06:28 PM   #5
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As I sense it's appropriate, I use a fairly common human tendency to "stick it to the man" (which, after all, is what Rock 'n Roll is all about) and stop acting as if the culture could control you.

You see how this might be useful for painful problems?
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Old 29-03-2012, 08:24 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Gil Haight View Post
Barrett,
I think most therapists (who you describe) believe the system they belong to is smarter more powerful, etc. I don't think they would suggest these are their ideas. Don't we hear these same comments from the general public? Everyone gets away with this excuse. "Hey I'm just upholding the rules"
Gil
Gil, do you think we could get the rule changed to "you must jump off a bridge", we could maybe get them to follow.
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Old 30-03-2012, 03:00 AM   #7
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To me, this is the heart of it:

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The great worry, of course, is that an honest discussion of the underlying causes of human behavior appears to leave no room for moral responsibility. If we view people as neural weather patterns, how can we coherently speak about right and wrong or good and evil?
Can those of you who focus on treating movement problems without strengthening but rather via somethig like what Feldenkrais or Bobath would suggest see why I like this?
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Old 30-03-2012, 03:40 AM   #8
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I was following your line of thinking until now, and was once guilty of some of the labeling you refer to in post #2...not proud of it, obviously. Admittedly, not sure where you are taking this in relation to the specific quote above, but I am interested....

Respectfully,
Keith
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Old 30-03-2012, 04:14 AM   #9
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Keith,

Rather than consider that people are lazy or weakened by a sedentary lifestyle or lacks coordination because they are unmotivated or faking - I treat them as if (as Feldenkrais would say) they're reacting to an inefficient bit of brain processing.
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Old 30-03-2012, 04:32 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Barrett Dorko View Post
Keith,

Rather than consider that people are lazy or weakened by a sedentary lifestyle or lacks coordination because they are unmotivated or faking - I treat them as if (as Feldenkrais would say) they're reacting to an inefficient bit of brain processing.
Got it, I was focusing more on the good vs evil, less the right vs wrong in the quote...in the end, interaction without judgement: the creation of a genuinely therapeutic relationship without the guise of authority (nod to John W) while being respectful of that which is instinctive in the patient as a whole (not just the movement).

Definitely have to read this book now...another potentially important contribution to my ever-evolving world view.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts...your patience is appreciated.

Respectfully,
Keith
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