![]() |
|
|||||||
| Notices |
| General Discussion this forum is opened to all registered users of somasimple |
![]() |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
|
#1 | ||||
|
SomaSimpler
![]() Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 906
Thanks: 502
Thanked 674 Times in 251 Posts
|
I thought I would share with you the a couple of postings from a blog I am familiar with
, with some questions for discussion (if you don't mind) in the post that will follow.Quote:
Keith
__________________
Twitter: @KeithP_PT Whereupon our hands land on our clients/patients, we must consider the past, present and future of their Neuromatrix. -C.L. Chevrier, LMT Last edited by keithp; 13-04-2012 at 12:31 PM. |
||||
|
|
|
|
|
#2 | |
|
SomaSimpler
![]() Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 906
Thanks: 502
Thanked 674 Times in 251 Posts
|
In writing this blog posting, the correlation/similarities between pain and "choking" became apparent to me quickly. My thoughts above seem both clear and logical (certainly, however, if someone disagrees I would love to discuss it here).
In reading Gladwell's article, however, how the patient may "panic" in relation to pain (and seeking its release) was not as easy, although I cannot help but think it is equally important. I have paraphrased, for your convenience, Mr. Gladwell's remarks on panic: Quote:
I suppose I am bringing this here in an effort to try to continue to work out this story, something that I think patients can find very relate-able. Conversationally, the culture's influence on their posture may not be as accessible to them as thinking of the pressure of playing at Wimbledon, the World Series or the Masters. I think the idea of "choking" on pain may be beneficial for some. But... What about the patient who is panicking? What do they look like compared to the patient who is choking? How are their actions different? Would they still benefit from ideomotion? If they have reverted to instinct, why would they not have found ideomotion, themselves? My posting above makes it seem as if ideomotion is the opposite of choking, but if panic is the opposite of choking, does ideomotion lie somewhere in between? Respectfully, Keith
__________________
Twitter: @KeithP_PT Whereupon our hands land on our clients/patients, we must consider the past, present and future of their Neuromatrix. -C.L. Chevrier, LMT |
|
|
|
|
|
|
#4 |
|
life long learner, clinician, and instructor
![]() ![]() Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Sioux City, IA
Age: 43
Posts: 1,902
Thanks: 149
Thanked 677 Times in 265 Posts
|
Keith a few quick thoughts about choking and panicking come to mind.
I wonder if the panic tends to happen more after acute injury. Patient suffers some injury to a body part and panic sets in that stop thinking that injuries heal we just need to give them time and an appropriate environment to do what they naturally do. Their thoughts instead go to everything bad that might go wrong and they get stuck in defense and do not move toward resolution in the pain stages. Whereas, choking tends to happen the longer the pain persists. Just some early thoughts before the first patient of the day, so I will have to let it bounce around and see if anything else comes up as the day goes on.
__________________
Kory Zimney, PT, DPT http://koryzimney.blogspot.com "Study principles not methods, a mind that can grasp principles will create its own methods." - Gill "All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them." - Galileo Galilei |
|
|
|
|
|
#5 |
|
Harmless creampuff
![]() ![]() Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New Orleans, LA
Age: 48
Posts: 4,643
Thanks: 618
Thanked 966 Times in 436 Posts
|
I can't let this lie... Norman's collapse at the Master's was bad, but it couldn't hold a candle to van de Velde at the '99 British Open:
You can see the befuddled agony on his face when he chips into the creek.
__________________
John Ware, PT Fellow of the American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists "Nothing can bring a man peace but the triumph of principles." -R.W. Emerson “If names be not correct, language is not in accordance with the truth of things. If language be not in accordance with the truth of things, affairs cannot be carried on to success.” -The Analects of Confucius, Book 13, Verse 3 |
|
|
|
|
|
#6 | ||
|
SomaSimpler
![]() Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 906
Thanks: 502
Thanked 674 Times in 251 Posts
|
Quote:
Quote:
I tried to be content with using choking (alone) as a metaphor, but I felt unsatisfied not finding a way to wrap my mind around the idea that both panic and ideomotion are potentially instinctive...one destructive, the other not. Thanks for the replies... Respectfully, Keith
__________________
Twitter: @KeithP_PT Whereupon our hands land on our clients/patients, we must consider the past, present and future of their Neuromatrix. -C.L. Chevrier, LMT |
||
|
|
|
|
|
#7 |
|
life long learner, clinician, and instructor
![]() ![]() Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Sioux City, IA
Age: 43
Posts: 1,902
Thanks: 149
Thanked 677 Times in 265 Posts
|
Keith,
I still see it as instinctive. Think from a survival standpoint hunting in the woods. I am walking and hear a rustle in the brush. My instinct is going to be one of two options: run or stick around. Option A - stick around because most likely a nice deer that I can kill and make dinner with, Option B - it could be a large lion ready to attack me so I should run even though not to many lions living in Iowa. It is more likely that option A is what it is, but option B can be very powerful and overcome someone. Heck if I'm wrong and it is option A and I run away, I might be a little hungry but live to see another day. But if I'm wrong and stick around and it turns out to be option B, lights out game over. I think instinctively we still have options, some being better then others to act upon. The culture and context around the situation will help shape our instinctual decisions.
__________________
Kory Zimney, PT, DPT http://koryzimney.blogspot.com "Study principles not methods, a mind that can grasp principles will create its own methods." - Gill "All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them." - Galileo Galilei |
|
|
|
|
|
#8 |
|
SomaSimpler
![]() Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 906
Thanks: 502
Thanked 674 Times in 251 Posts
|
Thank you, Kory.
Perhaps I am conflating instinctive with automatic... Respectfully, Keith
__________________
Twitter: @KeithP_PT Whereupon our hands land on our clients/patients, we must consider the past, present and future of their Neuromatrix. -C.L. Chevrier, LMT |
|
|
|
|
|
#9 |
|
Human Primate Social Groomer and Neuroelastician
![]() ![]() Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Weyburn Sask.
Posts: 19,676
Thanks: 1,490
Thanked 3,193 Times in 1,570 Posts
|
Maybe ideomotion is the spinal cord, feeling and acting a bit panicked..
__________________
Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire |
|
|
|
|
|
#10 | |
|
SomaSimpler
![]() Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 906
Thanks: 502
Thanked 674 Times in 251 Posts
|
Quote:
I thought that one of the theories on idemotion and pain tied in with studies that show motor cortex activity (unobserved outwardly) that accompanies a painful experience...the potential for culturally inhibited movement that would otherwise satisfy the brain's thirst/hunger for movement that Wall wrote of. Respectfully, Keith
__________________
Twitter: @KeithP_PT Whereupon our hands land on our clients/patients, we must consider the past, present and future of their Neuromatrix. -C.L. Chevrier, LMT |
|
|
|
|
|
|
#11 |
|
Human Primate Social Groomer and Neuroelastician
![]() ![]() Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Weyburn Sask.
Posts: 19,676
Thanks: 1,490
Thanked 3,193 Times in 1,570 Posts
|
Yeah, I think you're right. I've always been confused about what ideomotion is or isn't or at what level.
__________________
Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire |
|
|
|
|
|
#12 | |
|
SomaSimpler
![]() Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 906
Thanks: 502
Thanked 674 Times in 251 Posts
|
Quote:
Thank you. Respectfully, Keith
__________________
Twitter: @KeithP_PT Whereupon our hands land on our clients/patients, we must consider the past, present and future of their Neuromatrix. -C.L. Chevrier, LMT |
|
|
|
|
|
|
#13 |
|
life long learner, clinician, and instructor
![]() ![]() Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Sioux City, IA
Age: 43
Posts: 1,902
Thanks: 149
Thanked 677 Times in 265 Posts
|
Don't forget Moseley and Butler's new text on GMI coming out...always more reading to do...
__________________
Kory Zimney, PT, DPT http://koryzimney.blogspot.com "Study principles not methods, a mind that can grasp principles will create its own methods." - Gill "All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them." - Galileo Galilei |
|
|
|
|
|
#14 | ||
|
SomaSimpler
![]() Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 906
Thanks: 502
Thanked 674 Times in 251 Posts
|
Quote:
Of course, the night after starting this thread, I came across this from Barrett in my evening reading: Quote:
Respectfully, Keith
__________________
Twitter: @KeithP_PT Whereupon our hands land on our clients/patients, we must consider the past, present and future of their Neuromatrix. -C.L. Chevrier, LMT |
||
|
|
|
![]() |
| Bookmarks |
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads
|
||||
| Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
| VIS Moseley: May 2011, 49 min. "Pain. Is it all just in your mind?" " | Diane | Eye-deas | 6 | 28-11-2011 09:09 PM |
| Article on academic "width" as opposed to "quality" in the UK | Diane | Decontamination Room | 6 | 05-07-2008 04:53 AM |
| "FATHERS" AND "SONS" OF THEORIES | bernard | Cells and Stars | 11 | 12-04-2006 08:58 AM |