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Old 06-01-2006, 09:54 PM   #1
Diane
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Default Deconstruction

I chose this word at first to title the MFR thread that Walt wanted to make, but he didn't like the idea of MFR being deconstructed, so I agreed to change the title. I think MFR got deconstructed anyway, or is in that process in that thread.

I really want to move a bit beyond the little fish bowl that is MFR, however. MFR is a good representative example of what is out there to be deconstructed because of all the hauling power it has achieved over the last 20 or so years, particularly in NA, but there are many many other examples. So I want to move on to what I think the real job is that must be done.

When I became a PT I really wanted to learn to use my hands to help people with their bodies, and that is all. I had a knack, proclivity, desire, and no small amount of persistence to make my way through life gradually acquiring the skills and the rationales. To me it has always been important to go deeper and deeper into the why of things. I might stay at a certain level for a time, but eventually get bored. For me, some childish or superficial or entertaining only level of explanation just won't suffice.. I need to go deeper. I don't really know why. Other people have other obsessions, collect stamps, or whatever; I collect information. (I often have no idea what to do with it, or where I put it, but it's in there somewhere in the undermind, composting away.)

Occasionally some bit comes to the surface that has not composted at all, like a red plastic toy truck in the bin. It won't return to and blend in with the rest of the information, and sticks out as incongruous. So it gets chucked out, without any further thought or a moment's hesitation. I practice being detached from my own pet thoughts/memes, so that they have the best possible chance to decompose/compost/deconstruct themselves. If I have any doubt about whether or not to chuck an idea, it gets saved in a different mental box labelled "To be reexamined at some later date after more wisdom has accumulated." Later comparisons will show such ideas to be either;
1. congruous in some hitherto unthought of way, or;
2. incongruous, another red plastic toy truck to be chucked.

The keeper thoughts/info bits/pet theories have always ended up being the ones that become the most nutritional over time, account for the most variables, overlap best with the best available science, support themselves with no effort from me. I really like that statement by Lyotard, "father" of postmoderism, who said that each of us is a node of knowing and responsible for what we put out into the world as well as for what we take in from it, something to that effect. That couldn't be truer, especially on the internet.

That long digression over, the point I want to make is this: every person, pretty much, who walks in for treatment, does so because at some level of their existance they feel as though they've either had a trainwreck or have begun to embody one. I love what I do; helping people overcome pain, turn around behavioral corners, understand what the derailment/rerailment might entail; usually somewhere along the line I end up handling soft tissue on live bodies, skin layers on people who are fully conscious, so that they know and can have a direct experience of their own system righting itself. It's a powerful experience at the individual nervous system level. I think that it a valuable experience that we can provide people, those of us willing to do hands-on work. I call what I do "neuromodulation." That term is what is left over after a lot of sifting out of plastic bits that wouldn't compost properly.

I really disagree with how this work usually gets packaged out there in the world. I think that outside of vitamins, perhaps, or weight-loss schemes, or financial scams, there are very few other human endeavors that could be so rife with deception and transparently poor thinking/justification/manipulation of peoples' minds and wallets, as is manual therapy at almost every Cartesian level of itself and its promoters, from deepest hard tissue (spine) to softest soft tissue (skin). If each of us only just took a bit of time and thought to prune back our inner mental interface with the world from time to time, plus do some reading (for Pete's sake..) we wouldn't find ourselves in such a cultural meme mess. Nor would there be such a plethora of crazythinking treatment systems out there to have to learn to live alongside.
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Old 06-01-2006, 10:09 PM   #2
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Good post, Diane.

As a rider, looking at your new 'words' under your signature, something is worth noting re Mead.
Although her work was impressive and her quote is worthy, she was a total fraud and made up the whole thing about Samoan lifestyle. I'm sure you know that, and are just using her quote for the sake of its message.

She was severely 'deconstructed' and her message, whatever that was intended to be, ignored. So that was beneficial for social scientists and the Samoan people; but goes to show the extent some people will go to in order to be recognised as a trail blazer. She probably 'meant well'.
Reality/truth can always be manipulated to suit one's own purpose and aims - and many get away with it...at least for quite a long time. It's finding the truth, or the facts of a situation that can be difficult.

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Old 06-01-2006, 10:12 PM   #3
Diane
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Nari, you pulled a rug out from under my very feet. I had no idea about her being fraudulent. Now I must go check her out. I mostly like the message.

How does this new signature sit with you Nari?
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"Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

“Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

"In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

"Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire

Last edited by Diane; 06-01-2006 at 10:47 PM.
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Old 07-01-2006, 06:31 AM   #4
Walt Fritz
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Hi Diane,

After reading through all of the posts on the MFR thread regarding the research that backs up your work, I'm trying to figure out why the APTA, or at least Jon Childs, is bashing Barrett regarding CEUs and evidence. Who is Jon Childs, anyway. I read on the Evidence in Motion blog that he opposes Barrett, as well as John Barnes, and considers them the fringe camp. Not an oppositional question here, but what is his issue?

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Old 07-01-2006, 07:35 AM   #5
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Walt, you'll have to go ask John Childs.
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"Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

“Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

"In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

"Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire
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Old 14-01-2006, 06:07 PM   #6
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Default I can see clearly now...

After following and participating in various web forums over the last few years, I have to laugh at the implication I have found on this site that everyone here supporting neuromodulation is a follower of Barrett. I remember several exhanges that were somewhat less than friendly and it is exciting to watch how the relationships and, more importantly for the purposes of such forums, the knowledge has evolved as challenges were met and people dug deeper to find and share information. Wow, have I learned a lot. It makes me hopeful for Walt. Unfortunately, sometimes digging deeper only means finding yourself in a trench and unable to communicate with anyone else.

I think most of the people here, believe it or not, have come out of the trenches and want to help other people out of their holes. Come on out of those Platonic caves. Stop looking at the shadows on the wall and come see what you can see in the sunshine.
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Old 14-01-2006, 06:51 PM   #7
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I'll have to guess because he won't tell me either, but I think John Childs' was and remains disturbed by the fact that I wouldn't accept his assertion that generalized lumbar manipulation was the only way to appropraitely treat complaints of back pain that sufficiently qualified in his clinical prediction rule study. Anything else doesn't rise to the level of his standards and, apparently, the APTA is in love with what he's done. They certainly promote the daylights out of him.

My own personal experience with manipulative care in therapy I will match with anyone, and my reasons for choosing not to do this any longer form a fairly long list-one I detail whenever given the opportunity.

My best guess is that my refusal to jump on board has infuriated him to such a degree that he has on the Internet called me "disingenuous" (read liar) and "reckless." He saved the worst, that I am in the same mold as John Barnes, for other posts on Rehab Edge and his own site.

Sometimes people figure out what will bother you the most and then they go there.

I look forward to the day Childs and I meet in person.
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Old 14-01-2006, 08:33 PM   #8
Diane
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Walt, I think the article I posted already in the MFR thread, "The Sea Monster and the Whirlpool", contains a bit of the answer to your question. Childs and his work definitely represent the "whirlpool" of scientific fundamentalism, into which an awful lot of the profession concerned about its image seems determined to dive straight into. From the whirlpool lovers' perspective, everything outside the whirlpool seems the same. They are wrong. There is the middle way, as the article points out, eloquently. Each practitioner has the responsibility to be as science-based as possible, AND to not let fundamentalism take them over completely so that they never think for themselves again.
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Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page

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"Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

“Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

"In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth

"Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire
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Old 15-01-2006, 11:54 PM   #9
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Barrett,
Serious question here...who is John Childs. I must admit I've never heard of him, though his ego should not be crushed by this. I'm not a follower of APTA politics.

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Old 16-01-2006, 12:48 AM   #10
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Childs's claim to fame is the recently published research on clinical prediction rules for successfully using non-specific manipulation for low back pain. It's pretty good research and has been held up by the mobilipulators (I actually prefer manipuloids, Diane) as a great success. In my opinion, it has shown that much of what they have been teaching for years (eg. PIVMS to feel facet joint motion) is useless or, at least in need of major revision and deconstruction of complex memes. The criteria for using manipulation seemed so ridiculously outside of the client population I treat I was not compelled to alter my practice in any significant way. Such resistance is not held in high regard by the Whirlpool - and I expect that is why Barrett has been disparaged as well.
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