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Over in another thread, the topic of ART came up. This is a system that many of us have heard of, and for which I read a lot of interest and dedication in the practitioners.
Ole Johanson posted about it in the "Your Approach..." thread, #51, and I thought we could bring the discussion here to keep topics separate. Also so I could come back here and use the discussion the next time I have someone ask me about ART. First of all, I don't think anyone will doubt that some people treated with ART improve. There seems to be no published research on this approach, so it's logical then to ask whether the mechanisms of relief proposed by the instructors of the technique make sense. Perhaps that's where we should start...
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Last edited by bernard; 16-11-2006 at 06:39 AM. Reason: area 51! |
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#2 | |
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Ole posted this about ART in the previous thread:
Quote:
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Jason Silvernail DPT, DSc, FAAOMPT Board-Certified in Orthopedic Physical Therapy Fellowship-Trained in Orthopedic Manual Therapy Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist The views expressed in this entry are those of the author alone and do not reflect the official policy or position of the Department of the Army, Department of Defense, or the US Government.
Last edited by bernard; 16-11-2006 at 06:40 AM. Reason: quote |
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#3 |
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There are some research but it's sparse and it doesn't discuss the proposed mechanisms of relief.
The effects of active release technique on carpal tunnel patients: a pilot study Influence of active release technique on quadriceps inhibition and strength: a pilot study These are the same: Comparison of active release technique and proprioceptive neuromuscular facilitation for improving hamstring flexibility The effects of active release technique on hamstring flexibility: a pilot study The latter write this in their discussion: "At the 10-day follow-up the PNF group had significantly greater flexibility compared with ART. This may indicate that ART's effectiveness is dependent on mechanical deformations or tension within the musculoskeletal system not typically found in normal asymptomatic populations. It may also represent PNF's ability to impact contractile functions of the muscle that may not contain mechanical pathologies such as connective tissue changes." There is a study that showed that decreasing oxygen levels in a muscle will start an inflammatory process and thus cause the process where scar tissue (adhesions) are being formed. I cannot find it indexed anywhere though. This relates to repetitive strain injuries. This study was what sparked the development of ART. I also have another article which states that pretty much every tissue in the body can become adhesed to another - it's somewhere I haven't found it yet. Naturally - scar tissue cannot be painful. No tissues can. But they can cause mechanical and chemical deformation of nervendings in the tissues leading to tenderness and pain. Does this make sense to people here? Does it make sense for others to target the scar tissue with treatment? I cannot and do not deny that ART works in other neuralmodulatory ways as well. And please: let's stay focused on the issue of mechanisms.
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Ole Reidar Johansen, Musculoskeletal Physiotherapist "And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Nietzsche |
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#4 | |
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Hi Ole,
Quote:
However, remodeling of scar tissue is a relatively slow process that would not likely explain the fast changes seen in pain (I assume they are fast). Additionally, the process stimulating the remodeling of the scar tissue is the inflammatory process. It would stand to reason that, initially an increase in nociception would occur as a result. From an orthopedic stand point, strictly tissue based, re-initiating the inflammatory process in a degenerative tissue would seem to be very benificial as it would jump start a healing process in a tissue that had stopped responding in this way. This of course can all happen and be present in the absence of pain. So, although the long term changes in pain could be a result of a increased adaptive potential, I don't feel the immediate responses seen could be anything other than neuromodulatory. I've some questions about the technique. You speak of break down of adhesions. Does ART function through a trauma to the tissue in the way of the tool assisted techniques such as ASTYM, graston, gua sha? My understanding (which is limited) is that it is a relatively gentle technique. I'm curious because, if it is gentle and does not bring about an inflammatory response, I would have to wonder if scar tissue change is even happening.
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#5 | |||||
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
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Ole Reidar Johansen, Musculoskeletal Physiotherapist "And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Nietzsche |
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#6 | |
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Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. L VINCI We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. I NEWTON Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not a bit simpler. If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein bernard |
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#7 |
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Ole,
Can I add to Bernard's question- How can adhesions be changed without remodeling the connective tissue in some way? How would one approach an acute condition using ART, ie where there hasn't even been enough time for scar tissue/adhesions to form? Or don't you use it for acute presentations? How can you put pressure in the direction of muscle fibers only? Surely any pressure from the outside will always be mostly perpendicular to the muscle. |
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#9 |
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The example that came to me as I read that small article is this, A piece of raw steak. Massaging it doesn't really make it any more tender. Now pounding it with a hammer and spikes breaks down some of the tissue, a little, but I don't think anyone really wants to do that to their patient. Ok, some patients you do. Any change in the quality of muscle as a result of manual pressure seems to be more likely an effect of a neurological response than a change to the tissue itself. On the other hand, using the example of a steak, I can see how some relative change in position could be induced.
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#10 | |
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Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. L VINCI We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. I NEWTON Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not a bit simpler. If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein bernard |
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#11 |
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Tenderness of a steak comes around by the degradation of collagen by enzymes leaking from the cells.
I don't disagree that much of an effect comes from interacting with the nervous system - especially on the pain. But there is also a major change in tissue texture and ROM. Bernard - I wrote how it works. By freeing the fibers from eachother you increase the relative motion between the fibers. This is the change in tissue texture - from leathery to normal which is also accompanied by DOMS most of the time. If the tissues are of normal texture there is rarely any DOMS.
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#12 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
No. If you press straight down it will be perpendicular - but if you angle it and just go to the depth you wish to reach you create a vector of force.
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Ole Reidar Johansen, Musculoskeletal Physiotherapist "And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Nietzsche |
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#13 | |
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Quote:
This is exactly where we're at in this discussion right now. I disagree with the statement Barrett made there. Gotta go.
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Ole Reidar Johansen, Musculoskeletal Physiotherapist "And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Nietzsche |
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#14 |
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Ole-
But Barrett's quote, about the tissue change is backed by a peer-reviewed research paper and basic science that is not in dispute. By this I'm talking about Threlkeld's 1992 article I've posted here. We simply cannot change connective tissue this quickly. After reading the article, don't you agree? BTW, I think this is entirely different from the effects of the treatment - I've hear both practitioners and patients rave about ART. So I'm sure it works sometimes for some people. But not for the reason we have been told it works, you know what I mean? Jason.
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Jason Silvernail DPT, DSc, FAAOMPT Board-Certified in Orthopedic Physical Therapy Fellowship-Trained in Orthopedic Manual Therapy Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist The views expressed in this entry are those of the author alone and do not reflect the official policy or position of the Department of the Army, Department of Defense, or the US Government.
Last edited by Jason Silvernail; 19-11-2006 at 01:03 PM. |
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#15 |
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So, Ole, you do not agree that the skin overlying the tissue you think you are directly affecting has anything to do with autonomics or their outflow, or fast sensing by the cortex, or changes in the stuff you think you are directly effecting through your contact? Do you regard the nervous system as being the change agent, or yourself and your probings? How about a combination of yourself and the sensory nervous system of the patient in the form of a kinesthetic conversation?
Sounds like you regard skin as just a convenient passive holder in of tissue leakage. I would call the neural effects from skin a "confounding factor" to your theory; to disprove any effects deriving from skin is a necessary step, at least mentally, to help your hypothesis along, or it can't fly. If you were able to remove the skin from your patients, then treat them and get your results, then put the skin back on after, I would believe your theory without hesitation. But, in that this is impossible to do in living conscious outpatients, I assert that you must take skin/sensory input through it into account in any kind of manul therapy. Once your mind does take it into account, it becomes simpler/less complicated/more creative to get the effects you want just by handling the outer layer. Given a chance, the patient's system will paradoxically do much more with way less. Jason, "By this I'm talking about Threlkeld's 1992 article I've posted here." Would you please repost that? Or post a link to the post where you posted that? I tracked back but couldn't find where you had posted it. Thanks.
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Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire Last edited by Diane; 19-11-2006 at 01:17 PM. |
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#16 |
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Diane-
I believe I posted it in my previous entry, at the bottom there. Can everyone else see/download it? J
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#17 |
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It's there now and it downloaded fine Jason.
I think the term "adhesion" is thrown around as freely as the word "release" is. These terms ought to be defined outright so that communication between various professions is possible. Otherwise surgeons who have to go into someone's abdomen to lyse adhesions or ortho surgeons who have to worry about breaking bones in the attempt of manually lysing adhesions under anesthesia are going to think you aren't thinking straight about the holding power of actual adhesions.
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"I did a small amount of web-based research, and what I found is disturbing"--Bob Morris Last edited by Diane; 19-11-2006 at 02:53 PM. |
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#18 |
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Thanks for pointing that out. Got it.
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Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire |
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#19 | |
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And I agree! But I think there is something to the adhesions too. The techniques work on non-contractile tissues as well.
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Ole Reidar Johansen, Musculoskeletal Physiotherapist "And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Nietzsche |
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#20 | ||||
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Quote:
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#21 |
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Ole,
You've chosen a quote indicating that we know how remodeling might occur if the proper forces were applied to the target tissue at just the right angle. The problem is that manual pressure is highly unlikely to do that unless the practitioner (and patient) are lucky. Threlkeld makes this clear. I don't know of any studies attempting to clearly define much less solve the issues surrounding force tranmission. That being the case, the theory behind the effect of ART and the rules regarding technique are largely wishful thinking. |
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#22 |
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Ole, so far I have no particular diagreement with what you have posted so far.
Clinically, ROM and the perception of pain can be changed for the better without any venturing into deeper tissues. A soft longitudinal ectodermal stretch which cannot affect CT fibres - it is far too soft - can clinically do this. A light contact over a moving structure within the available ROM can quickly increase the ROM. The movement doesn't change the status, it is the available movement when the patient presents. "Stickiness" is an unglamourous word, but probably describes the state of tissues better than adhesion. I think we are stuck again with the "why" question, not the "how".... Nari |
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Ole,
Quote:
The second mechanism, re-establishing normal friction between adjacent structures by changing the interstitial content, sounds like the "stickiness" that Nari describes. Mechanically speaking, this sounds more feasible to me. What causes these interstitual fluid changes?
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About PAs, same thing. Still got to get through the skin and all its opinions to get to anything "neural" in the joint. Still have to account for any effects that might come your way via skin receptors first, since it is entirely in the way. Still have to then discount those same effects, or you don't have construct validity for your manual therapy hypothesis. Still have to go through all the unpleasant cognitive dissociation. I'm sorry, but I can't help it that 1. skin is the external sensor array of the brain and that; 2. it is in the way of all mesodermal hypotheses and that; 3. no one else ever pointed this out before. That's what we all have to cope with.
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#25 |
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Hi Ole,
Are the manual forces used in ART graded similarly to other manual approaches (if there is more than one grade)? What is the "Active" part of Active Release Technique?
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"I did a small amount of web-based research, and what I found is disturbing"--Bob Morris Last edited by Jon Newman; 20-11-2006 at 01:58 AM. |
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#26 |
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Clinically, ROM and the perception of pain can be changed for the better without any venturing into deeper tissues. A soft longitudinal ectodermal stretch which cannot affect CT fibres - it is far too soft - can clinically do this. A light contact over a moving structure within the available ROM can quickly increase the ROM. The movement doesn't change the status, it is the available movement when the patient presents.-Nari
This has been proven or just hypthesized? Diane, it is simple to test your theory, you can apply light contact before doing ART and see if that resolves the problem. I bet if Ole does this he will find no change. So once again I have to point out that the burden is to prove that skin manipulation has the effects you claim before you use it to argue that it is the real answer to why other manual therapy approaches are effective. |
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#27 |
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Randy,
No studies done - just clinical experience. That's all. And, like all applied techniques, it doesn't "work" for all patients. Especially the clientele I have, who are all complex pain people. Nari |
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#28 |
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Nari,
In Australia, it won't work anyway => skin is burnt by sun.
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Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. L VINCI We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. I NEWTON Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not a bit simpler. If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein bernard |
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#29 |
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Very funny, Bernard...
We are getting better at avoiding the sun - but have a long way to go yet. Nari |
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"This has been proven or just hypthesized? "
Randy, hypothesize how to get around it. Skin I mean. I'm listening.
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#31 | |
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I think the patient's movements, which can be strongly influenced by our therapeutic interaction including our words and stories (and theirs) is the big deal. Physically contacting someone likely catalyzes that interaction. I think there is an inverse relationship between the story told and the force used by the therapist. Specifically, the degree of veracity of the (commonly told) pain relief story decreases with increasing externally applied forces.
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#32 |
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>I think Diane would agree that the skin itself also remains unchanged in any enduring sort of way by her approach.
Absolutely. But what does seem to change, enduringly too, are all the little gnarley tender bits one can feel inside it, beneath it. Oh, and perceived pain. Oh, and movement. That improves. Enduringly.
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Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire |
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Diane,
I agree. Of course, as you've pointed out in the past, changes in the ectoderm are just harder to measure - it isn't that they're less important or relevant. Jon, Those last two lines from you are pretty good. What of the ways a therapist might be convinced that their story regarding dysfunction and recovery is true? What if they’ve grown unconvinced? Will they be able to continue to convince others? What sort of personal pathology would be necessary to tell a story convincingly that you yourself know not to be true? Would such a situation encourage you to run from the knowledge that might produce it?” It seems we’re in the midst of connecting several threads, including My Driver’s Story. |
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The "active" part of ART is that the patient actively moves his/her body part whenever possible. This helps block pain at the lateral thalamic tract and gives the patient a sense of control. In addition it helps to maximize the relative motion between the tissues.
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#35 | |
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Hi Steve,
Can you expand on this? Quote:
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#36 |
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Diane,
No one has argued that we can get past skin in manual therapies. What I have argued is that we can't put down the effects of all manual therapy to the effects of skin manipulation. Your argument can be reversed, we always touch skin when treating manually but we don't always get results, we touch skin a lot when not doing therapies and the pain continues. These DNM effects haven't been shown, I know you are working on it, but right now it comes down to you saying. I feel it, trust me. I have tried doing what you suggest, it hasn't worked for me. Is your argument then, "You are doing it wrong, you don't have the right touch or right attitude"? That too is an argument you regularly dismiss, and rightly, when made by mobipulators. |
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#37 |
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NeuroNut Evangelist
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Randy,
I think the context of the moment of contact with skin is important. What I have found helpful is the very little I say to the patient before some DNM. I'm neutral - this may work very well or it mightn't work at all - and leave it to the receptors to sort that out. One may think that there is a nocebo in the second phrase; but it does not seem to come over that way. To me it gives the patient's CNS two options, and I promise nothing. Maybe you do this too, I don't know. Nari |
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#38 | |
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Quote:
Patient does a movement to elongate the targeted tissue while one applies a pressure directed longitudinally to the tissue. Or one holds back one structure while the patient does a movement to cause another structure to slide past.
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Ole Reidar Johansen, Musculoskeletal Physiotherapist "And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Nietzsche |
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#39 | ||
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Quote:
I assume Diane has good success with what she does. And perhaps the success I have (gives me very consistent and predictable results) with patients is due to the stretching of the skin that comes with the techniques I use. Two more points you make me think of Diane. 1. There is another thing you must "pass through" on your way to the skin as well. And that is the patient interaction. Perhaps we're just agreeable people who the patients get along with and we persuade our patients to get better. Someone once said - I remember who told me but not who originally said it... Quote:
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Ole Reidar Johansen, Musculoskeletal Physiotherapist "And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Nietzsche |
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#40 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
Since this stuff is much weaker than actual CT it breaks easier and it doesn't create an inflammatory reaction of much magnitude just a little DOMS. Although some people have more of a soreness response than others.Damn you ppl are a tough crowd! Not that I expected anything less.
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Ole Reidar Johansen, Musculoskeletal Physiotherapist "And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Nietzsche |
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#41 | |
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Quote:
Naturally we have to go through the skin and all sorts of things can happen there! But hopefully you will see that it is possible to differentiate the different tissues below and target them specifically. It gets easier with practice too. Muscle tissue is no less living, functional and neurologically charged than skin IMO - after all it too is filled with stuff that can be used to elicit reflexes (naturally skin is too).
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Ole Reidar Johansen, Musculoskeletal Physiotherapist "And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Nietzsche |
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#42 |
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At this point I think it would be a good idea to revisit the concept of abductive reasoning, as discussed in detail in this thread.
Abductive reasoning follows this form: Some phenomena P is observed. P would be explicable if H were true. Hence there is reason to think that H is true. Now, apply Cory’s investigative work here. If we can agree that we are successful when behaving in a non-threatening manner and attending to that portion of the nervous system we can easily touch; the skin, then we can say the following: Favorable changes in ROM and comfortable functioning (P) is observed following gentle handling of the skin and some ideomotion. P can happen if the only actual problem is an abnormal neurodynamic (H) and not any sort of significant connective tissue adherence. Hence, H was the problem primarily if not exclusively. |
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#43 | |
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Ole, read Barrett's post carefully.
I have no quibble with the idea that people-handling skills are just as important as "tissue"-handling skills. About point 2: Quote:
Can't be helped. They're in your face no matter what you think you're treating.
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Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire |
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#44 |
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Ole,
I guessed that your exercise was intended only as a demonstration that specific tissues can be isolated, and not as a treatment format. Is that so? If not, I am confused about the purpose of this exercise. Sure I perceived strain on the flexor tendons. I also perceived the median and radial nerves having a grumble. But if the required tissue is isolated, and ART is then performed......we get skin stretch?? Nari |
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#45 | |
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Quote:
You can't use this argument since touch is a "polymodal" message that involves: heat/cold, pressure, direction over a large piece of skin. TENS is just itching/tingling because it is unable to reproduce the complete process => that's a first good reason to think it is not a "natural" solution.
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Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. L VINCI We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. I NEWTON Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not a bit simpler. If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein bernard |
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#46 | |
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Quote:
This would be repeated several times with the contact point being gradually moved more proximally so as to cover the entire muscle. If a deeper muscle was to be treated the superficial muscle is typically treated first. Then the deeper muscle is treated with more compression. This is the basic application of ART for all tissue it treats. The technique can be used for muscles, tendons, ligaments, fascia, and occasionally joint capsules. Sometimes the emphisis is between two different muscles rather than along the belly of the muscle, (between the biceps and brachialis for instance). Sometimes it is focused a releasing adhesions between a nerve and a muscle (the pronator teres and median nerve for example). There are many times when the movement must be done passively because the movement is to complex for the patient to remember, or it is more convenient in a paticular situation. But whenever it is possible active motion is prefered. Last edited by Steven; 21-11-2006 at 06:28 AM. |
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#47 |
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Ole-
No doubt you're thinking hard about the theory and practice of what you do in the context of pain science. I respect that, and this is just the sort of thing many of us wished we saw in more therapists. We ARE a tough crowd, but you're a smart guy, you can handle it. I understand a lot more about ART from your and Steven's posts. The practice of it, I mean, not the theory. You mentioned that you're not truly breaking down collagen fibers in the muscle. As Cory notes, this is known to frequently (if not always) produce an inflammatory response. You did state that it was Fibrin you were breaking down with the technique. How does fibrin get in muscle tissue? Aside from a hematoma from a direct blow and lysis of fibers, I mean. Have these fibrin "adhesions" ever been demonstrated? Jason
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Jason Silvernail DPT, DSc, FAAOMPT Board-Certified in Orthopedic Physical Therapy Fellowship-Trained in Orthopedic Manual Therapy Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist The views expressed in this entry are those of the author alone and do not reflect the official policy or position of the Department of the Army, Department of Defense, or the US Government.
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#48 | ||
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Hi Ole and Steven,
I did a lit review on this subject of couple of years ago. The most useful article starting off, is too old to be included in full text in the apta website. Here is the abstract however. I've got a copy in my hand, and here is what it has to say about fibrin: Quote:
Quote:
This link is to an excellent article on tissue changes that result from repetitive use. Here are some highlights from my notes: -Anoxia stimulates events that lead to collogen deposition. -Collogen depostion can directly contribute to median nerve compression, which can lead to anoxia -Histologic study of chronic overuse syndrome involved muscles showed 1) denerved or ischemic loss of type 2 collogen fibers 2) local hypoxia related to static shoulder postures in upper trapezius -Damage to sarcomere or sarcolema result in leakage of components into extracellular matrix and around myofibrils, repeated injury causes expansion of extracellular matrix, this all leads to depostion of collagen around myfibrils. So, it appears that situations likely to create an environment that would lead to formation of these adhesions and thier pre-cursors would be anoxia, and tissue stress beyond threshold. See this paper for an excellent discussion on that topic. So, the questions I am left with mechanically is, what do we know about fibrin as a pre-adhesion? How can it change fast enough to account for the changes seen in pain if they are not in fact neuromodulatory? Also, what is DOMS? Thanks for this discussion.
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#49 |
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Hi Steve, Ole
Thanks for the responses. Would it be accurate to say that the ART practitioner should press on the pain or within the muscle where the patient is sore? How does ART compare to Total Motion Release or myofascial release? I picked the above comparisons because of their use of the word release. Do you suppose the word release is being used to describe the same thing in each technique? Lastly, the treatment details described are quite similar to "strain-counterstrain" techniques. Not the same, but similar. Is there any connection in reasoning between the two?
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"I did a small amount of web-based research, and what I found is disturbing"--Bob Morris Last edited by Jon Newman; 21-11-2006 at 02:30 PM. |
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#50 | |
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I wanted to clarify my question a bit. If fibrin is pre-adhesion and is present in the various levels of the CT, can it be released? Since it would seem to be more anomalous in structure, it would seem to be more of a stickyness creator, vs. adherent. So, how does moving one structure in relation to another decrease the stickyness/friction created by fibrin. And can it happen fast enough to account for the fast reponse in pain?
Quote:
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