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Old 21-09-2007, 05:04 AM   #101
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Nah, Chris. Belief and conviction is not always showmanship....Your deliberate and non-flamboyant attitude may not go over well in Vegas, but it will get you long term patient supporters.... Just no TV appearances or big sponsors for a stage presentation in the Skydome (or whatever it is called these days) - Tony Robbins doesn`t quite have to worry yet,,,
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Old 18-07-2008, 08:01 PM   #102
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Here in North New Jersey the wrestling coach's chiro buddy wanted to take over my duties as a ATC. They both backed down when I contacted state licenseing authorties. Nice guys huh. A buddy ATC had a girl athlete tear her ACL. Her chiro said to do adjustments and it would make it better (no kidding). It didn't. Her insurance runs out (school insurance) and she has to wait a year for her ACL sx.

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Old 22-11-2008, 04:48 PM   #103
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A new thread has appeared at SBM on the topic of chiropractic and matrix repatterning.

Apparently a chiropractor was charged with sexual misconduct and claimed it was the technique's fault. OK... I think we DO have a thread on matrix repatterning somewhere in the rubbish cube... however, my understanding was that it was performed off-body, not on...

In the comments section, Joe posts that 9 out of 10 chiropractors believe in subluxation, according to their own survey, which he has linked, How chiropractors think and practice: The survey of North American chiropractors. Also in the comments, a brief discussion of PT versus chiro.
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Old 22-11-2008, 09:24 PM   #104
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Quote:
...Joe posts that 9 out of 10 chiropractors believe in subluxation, according to their own survey...
Ugh...thankfully I turned my back on that profession after my visit to the New York Chiro College.

To think I might have been out there sending postcards to previous patients telling them they need to come back in for their "maintenance" adjustment.
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Old 22-11-2008, 09:31 PM   #105
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Quote:
Ugh...thankfully I turned my back on that profession after my visit to the New York Chiro College.

To think I might have been out there sending postcards to previous patients telling them they need to come back in for their "maintenance" adjustment.
Way to go Nate.
Thinking ahead.
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"Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

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“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

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Old 28-11-2008, 06:05 PM   #106
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Hi there, just popping in to add a link to the new thread, "Sad."
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"Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

“Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

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Old 22-01-2009, 11:47 AM   #107
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Here's a case worth following.. some of the regulars here have even been subject to this tactic I believe.

http://counterknowledge.com/?p=2200
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Old 26-01-2009, 07:04 PM   #108
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Here is what I gather a relatively new video of what chiropractic is all about. Old habits die hard apparently.. http://se.youtube.com/watch?v=Mcl-2sPLqKE
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Old 19-02-2009, 07:20 AM   #109
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ScienceBased Medicie blog and Harriet Hall's latest thread about chiropractic. It started out slow, but eventually the chiros noticed it and now it's a rockin' thread. Check out the comment section especially.

I'm Harriet Hall's number 1 fan.
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"Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

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“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

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Old 19-02-2009, 05:23 PM   #110
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Diane, did you get to that youtube link at the end of the comments? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sbr3Mr6FS2I Blech! Must have been a slow news day in Davenport. What's curious to me is the strong consistency within that "culture' - of ego inflation, mercenary-driven pseudo-authority, which far outweighs any intention to help a patient participate in their own restorative process. Like the culture they have created for themselves is far removed from any kind of true health care. More reason to stay focused on real work and educating our patients (once we're done cleaning up the aftermath).
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Old 19-02-2009, 05:25 PM   #111
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Yeah cathy. Pretty much a matter for the icon.
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"Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

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“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

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Old 19-02-2009, 08:39 PM   #112
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Great post at SBM - thanks Diane.

Funny to see the ridiculous way physical therapists continue to be characterized by chiropractors - as poorly educated hacks unable to make a diagnosis.

It's clear they feel threatened. Perhaps its because we publish all the best research in manipulative therapy, are improving our education, practice, and research bases every year, have published research (cooperatively with orthopedic surgeons) on our superior musculoskeletal knowledge. Perhaps its because instead of competing with medical physicians, we work cooperatively with them by taking their consults and that we screen and refer our patients to physicians if we suspect they have a medical condition outside our scope of expertise rather than diagnosing someone with a "subluxation". Perhaps it's that we have clinical experience in actual hospitals and clinics with actual sick patients working cooperatively with physicians and other healthcare professionals rather than paying college friends to show up to a chiro college "clinic". Perhaps its our much higher academic standards for entrance into our schools. Perhaps its our higher starting salaries and low unemployment rate. Perhaps its our low student loan default rate and practice failure rate (though to be fair, almost every other profession looks particularly good in this area compared to chiropractic). Perhaps its because third parties say that the evolution of physical therapists to doctoral level education, integration with the medical model, and cooperative (rather than adverse and competitive) relationship with medical doctors will result in the continued decline of the chiropratic profession - see "The Future of Chiropractic Revisited". Perhaps its because of their declining enrollments and declining starting salaries and high practice failure rate.

So I guess it's hard to say what particular issue bothers them the most.
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Old 20-02-2009, 06:00 AM   #113
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Not sure if this has been posted up here...it goes along with one of Jason's posts about the home-chiropractic jazz...

Chiro says to Lobbyist "Those PT's can't learn manipulation"
Chiro says to Mom "Buy this DVD and just wack Johnny's neck in place, that'll fix his cough"

Hard to take seriously...I mean, c'mon!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk8bp...eature=related

Enjoy
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Old 20-02-2009, 06:44 AM   #114
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Just one more

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT7Lv...eature=related

You can find this stuff everywhere....Do they actually teach this in a college setting? And no one questions it?
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Old 20-02-2009, 07:10 AM   #115
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Oh pul-eeze!! manipulating the nose? and the bone at the top goes up where the frontal lobe is??? What??



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Old 20-02-2009, 02:17 PM   #116
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I briefly toured the chiropractic college in my state before PT school. They actually had a blood-draw lab, where students had to complete 3 blood draws on fellow students to graduate. Did I miss something in that purpose? Imagine a chiro coming at you with a needle?

And I think Jason hit on all of their sore spots...PT's are leaving chiros in the dust when it comes to advancing manual therapy and rehabilitative procedures. And I believe it is directly related to the higher admission standards for PT schools...better talent pools give you better outcomes (usually).
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Old 20-02-2009, 04:28 PM   #117
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Possibly the blood draws were in relation to this?
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Old 20-02-2009, 04:32 PM   #118
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Please read the message from the individual that posted this video....EYE-OPENING!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MambD...eature=related

Please, those of you that question these practices...Youtube is a beautiful thing to solidify your judgement. For those of you supporting these practices, you may want to question a lot of things you do.

Lastly,
as a PT student, I have learned these manipulations and they are quite easy to perform technique-wise (just ask the "do it yourself chiropractic dvd!"). I have watched and seen enough manips done by chiropractors (obviously those non-EBPers?) and they use the same manips for every patient. If I had the great fortune of running through life with blinders on, I would have gone this route.

Health history, possible blood draw (WHAT?), prone knee bend test with shoes still on (reliable/valid?), clicker thingy(voo-doo?) Lumbar, thoracic, cervical manips and have a nice day.

By the way, what is that 'Activator' thing? If I snapped my fingers and poked a patient at the same time would i get the same results?
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Old 08-04-2009, 03:35 PM   #119
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Default Vitalism chiro conference on Life support

Here is a conference on vitalism. Looks like vitalism is on Life support. It's a one day, costs $69, and .....
Quote:
Nine hours of continuing education credit have been applied for in the following states: Georgia, Florida, Michigan, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and New York.
Check out the video to see the face of sm-oo-the.
Apparently some Aussie is mixed up in it...

When your sales career built around selling voodoo is being threatened, repackage/rename it "new" ? Note the complete absence of any mention of neuroscience.
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Old 08-04-2009, 04:54 PM   #120
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The MOST telling aspect of the Ted Danson lookalike presentation, it that there is no mention or use of the word "science".
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Old 08-04-2009, 05:50 PM   #121
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Quote:
The intelligence is the process of life. That's the new vitalism. -Dr. Riekeman
Good grief, what the hell does this mean?

That presentation was full of self-importance and slickness, two characteristics that chiropractors consistently display.
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Old 08-04-2009, 07:43 PM   #122
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Yeah. I've started distrusting anything that sounds even remotely octagonal, myself...
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"Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley

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Old 15-04-2009, 06:44 AM   #123
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I just saw this video and feel it needs to be shared with the world. I'm sure you've all seen these things and this is old news, but I keep finding more and more things that makes me wonder.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J74va...e=channel_page

My only comment is...Seriously? These guys can actually sleep at night?
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Old 15-04-2009, 07:01 AM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrupe82 View Post
My only comment is...Seriously? These guys can actually sleep at night?
Does the belt holster come free with the Activator or do you have to purchase that separately?
That video is hilarious.

THESE are the people that have direct access to patients, are referred to as 'physicians', have more practice privileges than us by law and claim WE'RE not educated enough to safely diagnose a patient.
WOW. If I didn't know this situation existed, I wouldn't believe you if you told me.
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Old 15-04-2009, 08:38 AM   #125
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I wonder if he clicked his fingers instead of the Activator the "results" would be the same??

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Old 15-04-2009, 11:18 AM   #126
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Default the sneaker manipulation....

It probably would have.
I remember patients not trusting our new ultrashall equipement because it didn´t make a noise (it therefore couldn´t work could it?)

This last video is more than hilarious, it is shocking and dirty. I didn´t count how many times he touched the sneakers gathering dirt and stuff from its sools in the process. YUKKK

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Old 15-04-2009, 03:05 PM   #127
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personally, I am impressed. The ability to find the vertebra and rib joints "out of alignement" with a finger push through clothes, and then without error place the Activator on the exact spot to deliver that precise therapeutic thrust - with the exact same hand/arm pressure each time of course.
Really good.

And this guy can sleep at night. Even more impressed.....
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Old 15-04-2009, 10:20 PM   #128
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So I asked the individual that posted this video if there is any high level evidence suggesting that whatever he is doing is supported for whatever he is doing (i can't figure it out?)

He responded with this

"There is plenty of research here: http://www.activator.com/research_04/page_001.asp
Thanks for asking."

To make it easier i've attached the three research papers posted on this website
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Julian_JMPT_6_2008.pdf (2.82 MB, 16 views)
File Type: pdf Roy_Effects_JMPT_March-Apr_2008.pdf (385.2 KB, 9 views)
File Type: pdf Song-Reduce-Inflam-in-Rat-JMPT-1-2006.pdf (507.2 KB, 5 views)
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Old 16-04-2009, 04:13 PM   #129
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Something chiropractic which isn't so infuriating or such garbage: An article from Dynamic Chiropractic.

Quote:
BC/BSA recently announced that while coverage would not be affected, chiropractors are no longer included in the employee program's definition of physician, effective Jan. 1, 2009. The 2009 Blue Cross/Blue Shield Service Benefit Plan, as administered by the Blue Cross/Blue Shield Association, has specifically removed "Chiropractors / Doctors of Chiropractic" from its definition of physician and now considers us "other covered health care professionals."

What a coincidence! Just as national health care reform begins, BC/BSA, "out of the blue," decided to demote doctors of chiropractic from physician status to "other health care professionals."And what a coincidence that this demotion occurred right after the American Medical Association (AMA) House of Delegates adopted an official policy limiting physician status to medical doctors and doctors of osteopathy.
This puts chiropractic where it belongs IMO, might stop them getting away with pretending to be "doctors."
I don't know what it will mean for the PTs of the US.. maybe that it won't be worth getting a DPT if direct (unfettered by referral) access is the aim.
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Old 16-04-2009, 07:18 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by Diane View Post
This puts chiropractic where it belongs IMO, might stop them getting away with pretending to be "doctors."
I don't know what it will mean for the PTs of the US.. maybe that it won't be worth getting a DPT if direct (unfettered by referral) access is the aim.
Well, in the US the DPT is about more than direct access, but that's a big part of it. We have NEVER pretended to be or called ourselves "physicians", and I can't see that happening. I think the use of this term implies medical physician status, and certainly that isn't appropriate for a physical therapist. BTW, aren't DPMs "podiatric physicians" and ODs "optometric physicians"?
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Old 17-04-2009, 12:18 AM   #131
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Diane,

I think you would appreciate the neurophysiological intelligence of this gentleman. A 'sports kinesiologist and chiropractic neurologist' to be exact

Enjoy...sigh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAx1G...c-HM-fresh+div

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxoZ-...x=0&playnext=1

Last edited by mrupe82; 17-04-2009 at 12:24 AM. Reason: missed a few words
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Old 04-05-2009, 04:16 PM   #132
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This just in: Chiropractic delisted in Alberta. If you scan through it you'll read a whole bunch of "what??? Us? We were saving the government money, not costing them", testimonials, and ABSOLUTELY NO REFERENCE TO SANDY NETTE OR HER LAWSUIT.


Good for the Alberta government.

Of course, what it could mean is that the lawsuit gets thrown out or something, because if the Alberta government is being sued by class action for funding chiro, and they can prove that they do not fund chiro, then the suit loses all the wind in its sails. After the suit collapses, at some point in the future the Alberta government (which likely contains chiros and/or family members of chiros) could turn around and fluff funding to chiro right back up again. Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I see this as possibly just a tactical maneuver to avoid suit.
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Old 16-05-2009, 07:21 PM   #133
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Default $2.7 Billion Fraud by a chiro

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Originally Posted by Jason Silvernail View Post
Hard to figure out why they are universally considered such a greasy and shady profession...

This must be just yet ANOTHER example of those "few bad apples" we keep hearing about from the chiros...seems more than a few to me...

Here's an example

Here's more on that
Is this the world record in physical medicine fraud, $2.7 B ?:

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=13830

Sorry, turns out he wasn't a chiro after all.
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Old 16-05-2009, 07:27 PM   #134
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Ex-Scrushy-atingly good info there, Thirdgen.

It doesn't de-implicate chiro in general though.
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Old 16-05-2009, 07:27 PM   #135
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Yeah. I've started distrusting anything that sounds even remotely octagonal, myself...
Does this mean you are now running stop signs
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Old 16-05-2009, 07:31 PM   #136
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Ex--atingly good info there, Thirdgen.

It doesn't de-implicate chiro in general though.
I didn't intend to "de-implicate chiro in general".

Besides, I expect Scrushy is a fine, upstanding citizen.
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Old 16-05-2009, 11:15 PM   #137
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Then, what's your point, Thirdgen?

Your link, while a worthy example of gross health care financial fraud, has nothing to do with the context of this thread.

Are you trying to tell us, "See, PTs are frauds, too."

For the record, Scrushy was trained as a respiratory therapist, and his organization, while certainly predominant in outpatient PT services, had just about all rehab-related professions, viz PT, OT, ST, ATC and even MDs, providing services in several different settings, including neurological and acute rehab.

Scrushy is now a convicted felon. Is that your idea of a "fine, upstanding citizen," or are you just being sarcastic as well as cryptic with this series of postings?

Why don't you tell us who your are and what point it is you're trying to make. I don't have the time or the inclination to decipher your wry wit.
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Old 03-06-2009, 03:41 AM   #138
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kt5Kb...eature=related

This 'crack head' (pun intended) actually states he uses PHYSICAL THERAPY to treat patients (idiot thinks that PT is ice/heat/e-stim)...last I checked that's not allowed.

Now this is a purely speculative question....What would it take to expose chiropractic for what it is, thus eradicating it, or at least put it where it belongs?

Everyone's reply is that they have more money to pay lobbyists, thus political pull/power. I saw a stat saying there are 137,000 PTs in the US and 41,000 chiros. There is no way they should have the political pull they do.


Matt
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Old 03-06-2009, 04:03 AM   #139
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You forgot to consider the trial lawyers in that equation. They tend to tip the scales quite a bit in the political arena. I still think the many chiros in the US are in the middle of a slow bleed however.
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Old 27-06-2009, 05:17 PM   #140
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Rod,

Sorry to forget the trial lawyers.....I still revert back to my previous question, what would it take to expose them for what they are? They are very good at getting what they want and restricting others from doing what is within their scope of practice, yet can/will say they do physical therapy. I see these offices on every corner and hear the garbage they fill peoples' brains with. I still know PT's, one i talked to yesterday, say her manipulations 'are very general and not as specific as a chiropractors.' Yes, i filled her in afterwards and pointed her toward various papers.

I know this is/may be a useless fight, but in all honesty, they are the one 'health-care professional/doctor' that practices a method that is flawed in theory,completely invalid, and invented in one day by a magnet healer. Why, after >100 years are they still here?
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Old 27-06-2009, 05:28 PM   #141
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They are still here because their marketing has hit all the right notes at the right time and changes as is needed. Simple as that.
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Old 27-06-2009, 05:34 PM   #142
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Quote:
I know this is/may be a useless fight, but in all honesty, they are the one 'health-care professional/doctor' that practices a method that is flawed in theory,completely invalid, and invented in one day by a magnet healer. Why, after >100 years are they still here?
GREAT question!

I think the answer may lie somewhere in the carrying capacity of their environment. For something to exist, it exploits its environment. However, the other side of this is that the environment will support or at least tolerate that... what to call it... "life form"?

Anyway, by exposing it, by naming it for what it is, by explaining it, by supporting all the efforts made by anyone/everyone out there who are also doing this, eventually the environment will become less tolerant/supportive etc.

On the plus side, it's a (so-called) "profession" that based itself on a very, very narrow base of human primate social grooming. The more that base is eroded scientifically the more the (so-called) profession will topple over one day because of its own dead weight. It may take out orthopaedic manual therapy with it, when it comes crashing down in the Deep Dark Forest of Meso-doom. That will be a sad day for those who are our friends and who truly believed they were treating joints, but a glad day for reason and reality and neuroscience-based forms of treatment.
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Old 12-10-2009, 05:29 AM   #143
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Chiropractors billing for PT? Sued 11 million for doing that. Fraud! Bad chiro! Bad!
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Old 21-11-2009, 04:50 PM   #144
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This video is from Penn and Tellers' show called 'Bulls**t." If you don't know them, they are a comedian/magic duo from Las Vegas. It's a little bit on chiropractic. If you are offended by the use of four letter words, please DO NOT watch this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uD_JPtsP-Q

Have a great weekend
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Old 21-11-2009, 05:30 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrupe82 View Post
This video is from Penn and Tellers' show called 'Bulls**t." If you don't know them, they are a comedian/magic duo from Las Vegas. It's a little bit on chiropractic. If you are offended by the use of four letter words, please DO NOT watch this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uD_JPtsP-Q

Have a great weekend
Yes, this belongs in here. Screamingly funny.
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“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis

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Old 21-11-2009, 06:28 PM   #146
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Wow.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTz7V...eature=related
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Old 21-11-2009, 07:14 PM   #147
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Anders - that is typical isn't it:
A good looking "professional" (notice the wavy hair, white coat), nice visuals (x-rays with "misalignments"), a confident attitude with sentences as "we WILL fix this" and, to top it off, a very cool looking machine doing something not-so-hard on the skin. Bingo.
All brought to you by the popular soap-image of the scrub wearing "hottie" doctors.....
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Old 21-11-2009, 07:57 PM   #148
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Default Crelin article

http://www.chirobase.org/02Research/crelin.html

An interesting article.
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Old 21-11-2009, 09:30 PM   #149
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Bas,

I've seen The Doctors show on TV previously, but I never would have thought they would uncritically showcase this kind of treatment.. well well..
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Old 23-11-2009, 03:14 AM   #150
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuUM7...1&feature=fvwp

I'm without words...
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