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Old 05-01-2005, 02:50 PM   #1
emad
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Default Imagery Thoughts !

Hi all ;

An idea /Hypothesis in my mind , which i can not prove /support using scintific evidence .

When i ask the patient :
imagine you are free of pain
Think you are normal
Imagine you are not experince of pain
Imagine you can remove the pain
I magine The pain diapperaed
I magine you do not feel the pain
I magine you can control the pain
Imagine no pain
Imagine
Imagine
imagine


so , do you think my friends there will be postive somatosensory changes and feedback due to these thoughts , and we can use that method to control the pain.

Of course , i said above i can NOT reasons these ideas.

cheers
Emad
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Old 05-01-2005, 10:20 PM   #2
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emad,

There is strong evidence that imagining movements and good/bad thoughts will alter the perception of the potential of pain.

I might suggest, that you also ask the patient to 'imagine' normal movement. Does not matter much what movement, but perhaps ask the patient what action he/she would like to do.

try it!


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Old 06-01-2005, 07:33 AM   #3
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Emad,

As Nari said it, there is strong evidences which are saying that positive thinking (of any kind) have a positive effect. Evolution and life show us that we are globally functioning in a binary choice all the time => good/bad, true/false and these choices have positive/negative effects on health.

It is preferable to be optimistic (and patient). It does not mean that we have to become naive or silly!

In each problem/experience we are encountering in the life, there is a positive lesson. One may see, only the negative of it and he learnt nothing and one may see something useful. It may help when you'll encounter a similar problem in the future.

Pain may be also a positive marker to show us the things to avoid.
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Old 07-01-2005, 11:32 PM   #4
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Default Imagine/visualization

Hello Emad et al.

Yes absolutely, and hx , experience is filled with examples. Takeo gave an example of a boy who had an inoperable brain tumor that he imagined attacking and eliminated.
On a similar tangent , imagining/visualizing a movement can mimic premotor cortex activation.

check out this link (apologies if old hat )

http://www.aptei.com/library/viewReportjsp?report=155

Perhaps in the early phases of LBP this can be used to teach fear avoidance in a painless fashion ?

Cheers.........Thomas
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Old 08-01-2005, 07:11 AM   #5
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Hi Thomas,

The link does not work.
This one does but there so many papers.
http://www.aptei.com/library/
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Old 08-01-2005, 01:33 PM   #6
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Default Premotor cortex

Thanks Bernard,

On that link it is paper # 44. Not sure what I am doing wrong ops:
as none of the links I am posting seem to be working ?



Cheers, Thomas
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Old 08-01-2005, 02:28 PM   #7
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No matter Thomas,
just a bit more experience to learn! :wink:

Here it is =>
http://www.aptei.com/library/viewReport.jsp?report=155

Do not try to write the link (too complicated), just copy it =>

select the link in the browser,
copy it,
paste it on the message window and Bingo! 8)
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Old 08-01-2005, 02:40 PM   #8
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=10971647

Eur J Neurosci. 2000 Aug;12(8 ):3059-63.

Ipsilateral involvement of primary motor cortex during motor imagery.

Porro CA, Cettolo V, Francescato MP, Baraldi P.

Dip. Scienze e Tecnologie Biomediche, Universita di Udine, P.le Kolbe 4, I-33100 Udine, Italy. cporro@makek.dstb.uniud.it

To investigate whether motor imagery involves ipsilateral cortical regions, we studied haemodynamic changes in portions of the motor cortex of 14 right-handed volunteers during actual motor performance (MP) and kinesthetic motor imagery (MI) of simple sequences of unilateral left or right finger movements, using functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI). Increases in mean normalized fMRI signal intensities over values obtained during the control (visual imagery) task were found during both MP and MI in the posterior part of the precentral gyrus and supplementary motor area, both on the contralateral and ipsilateral hemispheres. In the left lateral premotor cortex, fMRI signals were increased during imagery of either left or right finger movements. Ipsilateral cortical clusters displaying fMRI signal changes during both MP and MI were identified by correlation analyses in 10 out of 14 subjects; their extent was larger in the left hemisphere. A larger cortical population involved during both contralateral MP and MI was found in all subjects. The overall spatial extent of both the contralateral and the ipsilateral MP + MI clusters was approximately 90% of the whole cortical volume activated during MP. These results suggest that overlapping neural networks in motor and premotor cortex of the contralateral and ipsilateral hemispheres are involved during imagery and execution of simple motor tasks.

PMID: 10971647 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. I NEWTON

Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not a bit simpler.
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
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Old 08-01-2005, 02:43 PM   #9
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In the link they give an example =>

Quote:
Have your patient �visualize� keeping their back straight, drawing in their abdominals, using their lumbar muscles and bending at the hips to pick up the box. With eyes closed have them repeat the process of lifting 4-5 times, then actually perform the task.
Perhaps some SomaSimplers have a different opinion about it?
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Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. L VINCI
We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. I NEWTON

Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not a bit simpler.
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. Albert Einstein
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Old 08-01-2005, 05:22 PM   #10
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Hi Nari , Bernard & Thomas :

I have previously put an evidence on somasimple regarding imagery motions .

http://www.somasimple.com/forums3/viewtopic.php?t=109

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=14615433

Neurophysiol. 2003 Nov;90(5):3304-16

Imagery of voluntary movement of fingers, toes, and tongue activates corresponding body-part-specific motor representations.

Ehrsson HH, Geyer S, Naito E.

Department of Neuroscience and Motor Control Laboratory, Karolinska Institutet, S-17176 Stockholm, Sweden. H.Ehrsson@fil.ion.ac.uk

We investigate whether imagery of voluntary movements of different body parts activates somatotopical sections of the human motor cortices. We used functional magnetic resonance imaging to detect the cortical activity when 7 healthy subjects imagine performing repetitive (0.5-Hz) flexion/extension movements of the right fingers or right toes, or horizontal movements of the tongue. We also collected functional images when the subjects actually executed these movements and used these data to define somatotopical representations in the motor areas. In this study, we relate the functional activation maps to cytoarchitectural population maps of areas 4a, 4p, and 6 in the same standard anatomical space. The important novel findings are 1). that imagery of hand movements specifically activates the hand sections of the contralateral primary motor cortex (area 4a) and the contralateral dorsal premotor cortex (area 6) and a hand representation located in the caudal cingulate motor area and the most ventral part of the supplementary motor area; 2). that when imagining making foot movements, the foot zones of the posterior part of the contralateral supplementary motor area (area 6) and the contralateral primary motor cortex (area 4a) are active; and 3). that imagery of tongue movements activates the tongue region of the primary motor cortex and the premotor cortex bilaterally (areas 4a, 4p, and 6). These results demonstrate that imagery of action engages the somatotopically organized sections of the primary motor cortex in a systematic manner as well as activating some body-part-specific representations in the nonprimary motor areas. Thus the content of the mental motor image, in this case the body part, is reflected in the pattern of motor cortical activation.

PMID: 14615433 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

cheers
emad

Last edited by bernard; 10-02-2006 at 07:19 AM.
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Old 08-01-2005, 05:26 PM   #11
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Ok friends , above the link , and the evidence .

But , when i posted this topic i meant the thinking /thought .

I know very well that imagery motions could lead to cortex representations , changes postively .

But here , what about thought , just the patient think of bein free of pain .

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Old 08-01-2005, 10:33 PM   #12
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emad

David Butler in his SNS book makes the point that 'thought' can be the most powerful analgesic (placebo)or nocibo. Negative thought sends all sorts of undesirable messages which the brain interprets as pain/fear/danger.

I'm not at work. but will try to dig out some research on the power of thought...


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Old 09-01-2005, 06:12 PM   #13
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Hi nari:

yes, I agree it may be the most powerful tool to address pain , however , i had not read that book , just an idea in my mind , because i had practically applied imagery motions through my work , and one time while i was asking the consumer to imagine that he rotates his neck , i thought of applying that type of Thought /thinking imagination as a tool of therapy .

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