![]() |
|
|||||||
| Notices |
| Barrett's Forums This discussion is devoted to the latest advances in neuroscience and the clinical phenomena it explains. |
![]() |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
|
#51 |
|
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 269
Thanks: 55
Thanked 51 Times in 25 Posts
|
Barrett,
This thread has been particularly interesting for me. The very idea of being impulsive seems so foreign in Physical Therapy that it is no wonder why we have been marginalized to the degree we have. Indeed an impulsive urge can get one in trouble but certainly not always. In rehab however risk it is not even a part of the equation. Maybe this is why physical therapy is not really an attractive profession. Gil |
|
|
|
|
|
#52 |
|
Enjoy a moment of whimsy
![]() Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,024
Thanks: 5
Thanked 55 Times in 41 Posts
|
I think Garr Reynold's blog entry related to Brenda Ueland's book, If You Want to Write, lends itself to this thread.
__________________
"I did a small amount of web-based research, and what I found is disturbing"--Bob Morris |
|
|
|
|
|
#53 |
|
Writer and Clinician
![]() Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio
Age: 61
Posts: 12,668
Thanks: 611
Thanked 1,482 Times in 869 Posts
|
Gil,
Right again. I’ve noticed that the simple act of standing and/or sitting once someone is a therapy patient becomes something akin to a NASA shuttle launch. The time invested in instruction, movement precautions, positioning, repeated instruction, postural instruction, repeating all of that, admonishing, cheerleading and one final repetition of the whole thing once again seems to stand in the way of spontaneity for some reason. |
|
|
|
|
|
#54 |
|
Human Primate Social Groomer and Neuroelastician
![]() ![]() Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Weyburn Sask.
Posts: 19,674
Thanks: 1,490
Thanked 3,190 Times in 1,568 Posts
|
I thought of this thread when I read this post.
__________________
Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire Last edited by Diane; 28-12-2009 at 11:50 PM. |
|
|
|
|
|
#55 | |
|
Harmless creampuff
![]() ![]() Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New Orleans, LA
Age: 48
Posts: 4,643
Thanks: 618
Thanked 966 Times in 436 Posts
|
Quote:
This is one of those special threads that reminds me on a deep level why I choose to do what I do. And how I might become better at it.
__________________
John Ware, PT Fellow of the American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists "Nothing can bring a man peace but the triumph of principles." -R.W. Emerson “If names be not correct, language is not in accordance with the truth of things. If language be not in accordance with the truth of things, affairs cannot be carried on to success.” -The Analects of Confucius, Book 13, Verse 3 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
#56 | |
|
Writer and Clinician
![]() Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio
Age: 61
Posts: 12,668
Thanks: 611
Thanked 1,482 Times in 869 Posts
|
You're right John, this thread is special.
On January 1, 2007 I wrote this in the Story and Narrative thread: Quote:
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#57 |
|
Writer and Clinician
![]() Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio
Age: 61
Posts: 12,668
Thanks: 611
Thanked 1,482 Times in 869 Posts
|
Seated with two friends my age on New Year's Eve, I listened to them speak of how much fun they'd had recently building doll houses and model cars. Given the chance I brought up the points in Brown's book about play's importance and both agreed that their life-long passion for creative crafting kept them sane in jobs that rarely offered any such opportunity.
I build nothing but working with my hands on inanimate objects has long been something that fascinates me. Sleights with cards and coins, juggling a variety of objects and now playing the harmonica each day are all examples of play that maintain my interest in living. Bringing an empty page to life with some writing that informs, endures and questions the dogma that surrounds therapy is my favorite form of play, and I'm sure it's much the same as ideomotion when done without a primary concern for its cultural correctness. Perhaps what I've said for years about the rejection of this active movement by those around us and, by extension, the educational community, is directly related to the dearth of jugglers, magicians, harmonica players and writers around us. |
|
|
|
|
|
#58 |
|
Human Primate Social Groomer and Neuroelastician
![]() ![]() Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Weyburn Sask.
Posts: 19,674
Thanks: 1,490
Thanked 3,190 Times in 1,568 Posts
|
Barrett, I thought you might like to watch this. I thought it was quite good.
__________________
Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire |
|
|
|
|
|
#59 |
|
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Minocqua, WI
Age: 34
Posts: 545
Thanks: 18
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
|
Great thread.
I have recently encountered a pt who's mother urged her to read a book about creativity and how it decreases pain (have to look up the name again....), and she said she started to make jewelry for people for Christmas to help w/her therapeutic progression, and that she finds it both distracting and releasing (both beneficial to her for her pain). The interesting thing about said patient, is that she was a hairstylist, though a manager at the time....don't know how much her creativity was welcomed/stifled in her role as manager...but it would be interesting to find out, especially in light of this thread, as she has no evidence of any "reason" for her pain and is most frustrated w/the lack of attention from her other providers for that fact....... Funny thing too...she was mentioning that she had not had her hair done in a while (but was in too much pain/too busy to get it done), and I asked her what she liked to do with it, said I loved the idea (she told me she likes very funky colors/styles), and next visit she comes in with an awesome style and a t-shirt w/a funny phrase on it that I commented on. I was all about noticing/pointing out/encouraging her creative process without realizing the effect it might have had. I tended to agree with her assessment that allowing her creative processess to flow would likely assist other creative (vs. destructive) processes to resume, but I am just beginning to understand the connections. Anyway, she is doing much better now (pain centralized and almost resolved). And prior to her re-awakening (?) of her creative processes, we were doing SC...wonder if it brought out her creativity again? Good to see how it all comes together either way, as I was tempted to disregard her creative impulses (not purposely, just didn't know it was as meaningful as it apears after reading this thread) as only slightly impactful on her pain..... I wonder how we, as providers, can educate our patients to be more "creative" except through SC/ideomotion. The funny thing about SC is that the pt thinks the provider is moving them, so they don't really realize (consciously) that they are doing the moving (which is the point as far as I understood...). So, how can we encourage creativity and keep it non-conscious? I am asking as a poet, and a person who has many friend tell me they could "never" write like that..or at all. And for me, no one encouraged me to do it, and I don't consciously seek to write, phrases and associations just come, and when they do, I am desperate to get them down before they rattle my head apart. At times it would be nice if I could consciously subdue them, or bring them out impromptu as well....just don't work like that for me! Steph
__________________
Stephanie A. Mikoliczak, DPT And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. - Anaïs Nin |
|
|
|
|
|
#60 |
|
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 269
Thanks: 55
Thanked 51 Times in 25 Posts
|
I have not noticed any correlation between being a “creative person”, ie. poet, musician, artist, etc. (believe me when I say I am none of the above) and the ability to maneuver in an unique, spontaneous and corrective way. Perhaps the very idea of what it means to be creative is what needs to be explored. Our societies’ insistence that only certain individuals are “really” creative is likely the fundamental problem.
It seems the most significant point in all of this is about the “urge” and not about talent. Gil |
|
|
|
|
|
#61 |
|
Writer and Clinician
![]() Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio
Age: 61
Posts: 12,668
Thanks: 611
Thanked 1,482 Times in 869 Posts
|
Gil,
I think you’re right. I also think that creativity and imagination are intimately linked. That was discussed at length here and I feel that helping people in pain is vitally dependent upon their educability. Perhaps there’s a line crossed in the midst of dementia that makes it nearly impossible to help them in the usual ways discussed here. So, we need imagination, creativity and movement. Perhaps most importantly our patients need a therapist present who understands these things from several different angles and on several different levels. Oh, and I need your email address in order to send you that stuff we discussed on the phone last week. |
|
|
|
|
|
#62 | |
|
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Minocqua, WI
Age: 34
Posts: 545
Thanks: 18
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
|
Found a quote from that thread (thanks Barrett for the link), regarding pain, imagination and movement, and I think it clearly (in my mind) states how SC might help us access the imagination/creativity necessary to move out of the habit of not healing:
From Diane in post #10: Quote:
I think one way to encourage more creativity/imagination in patients is through less cuing for the exact movements (as part of HEP, for example in Feldenkrais movement patterns) and to attend more to what the movement chosen feels like, etc. Also attempting to educate the pt on the importance of explorations of movement and responsiveness to pain is a good tactic. I am finding that pts seem to tap their own inner resources/creative instincts when they are given the gift of conscious/non-conscious exploration of movement and given the "permission" to continue to explore, and maybe that is enough? As far as the urge to be creative, I wonder if the urge is there underlying in the fact that they have pain in the first place (at least neurogenic-type pain). Also the fact that they move w/SC demonstrates that urge underlying as well perhaps. Is it enough to know the urge is there, the act of moving is creative if it's the right kind, and the pt's "creative/imaginative" processes, once tapped and encouraged, remain open and expressable/expressive once the process begins? I think it is correct to say that society tends not to recognize creativity as much as "talent," or to encourage the creative act. We do that with SC and our cues/instructions to pts. From there, I wonder if it is individual to the pt how creative/imaginative they allow themselves to be or are motivated to become, and we need to learn how to better assess for the individual expression and speak/teach to that? Any ideas? Steph
__________________
Stephanie A. Mikoliczak, DPT And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. - Anaïs Nin |
|
|
|
|
|
|
#63 | ||
|
Writer and Clinician
![]() Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio
Age: 61
Posts: 12,668
Thanks: 611
Thanked 1,482 Times in 869 Posts
|
In post #4 of this amazing thread begun by Cory in June 2006 he wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
I think. I'm almost sure. |
||
|
|
|
|
|
#64 |
|
Harmless creampuff
![]() ![]() Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New Orleans, LA
Age: 48
Posts: 4,643
Thanks: 618
Thanked 966 Times in 436 Posts
|
My wife has been converting some old VHS home video of our kids to DVD. It's mesmerizing to watch them frolic about at play when they were between about 3 and 6 years old- before they had much rational concern about what they were doing. Their movements were so spontaneous and whimsical.
After watching them flit, twirl and kick about, I can understand why patients might feel a little self-conscious about engaging in such behavior- and why a therapist might question his professional "gravitas" trying to evoke such instinctive movement. It seems so much more serious to restore an arthrokinematic glide than to evoke a playful, ideomotive response.
__________________
John Ware, PT Fellow of the American Academy of Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapists "Nothing can bring a man peace but the triumph of principles." -R.W. Emerson “If names be not correct, language is not in accordance with the truth of things. If language be not in accordance with the truth of things, affairs cannot be carried on to success.” -The Analects of Confucius, Book 13, Verse 3 |
|
|
|
|
|
#65 | |
|
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Minocqua, WI
Age: 34
Posts: 545
Thanks: 18
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
|
Quote:
Also, yaaaawn...
__________________
Stephanie A. Mikoliczak, DPT And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. - Anaïs Nin |
|
|
|
|
|
|
#66 |
|
Human Primate Social Groomer and Neuroelastician
![]() ![]() Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Weyburn Sask.
Posts: 19,674
Thanks: 1,490
Thanked 3,190 Times in 1,568 Posts
|
And it seems so much more measurable for those interested in measuring in order to appear more sciencey. So much more a noun than a verb.
__________________
Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire |
|
|
|
|
|
#67 |
|
Writer and Clinician
![]() Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio
Age: 61
Posts: 12,668
Thanks: 611
Thanked 1,482 Times in 869 Posts
|
I especially like John's point. My brother Kevin once told me that he objects to being referred to as "childish" though "child-like" is perfectly acceptable.
Over the years I've developed a demeanor that gives the appearance of thoughtful and experienced professionalism. I'm certain that this permits much more playfulness (and by that I don't mean raucous behavior) than if I were to appear as my colleagues commonly do. My behavior and speech have a purpose, and it is to advance the progress of the patient toward the various goals we have agreed upon and still feel are realistic. Unlike the therapist handling others as if they were some sort of combination lock they were trying to defeat - posing and posturing with self-importance and some imagined magical skill - I offhandedly enter their peripersonal space, allow them to enter mine and then attend to what's happening. It is not at all unlike the communion of play that Donaldson speaks of so well. In short, it helps to wear a tie while teaching and playing with others. After all, it worked well for Fred Rogers. Last edited by Barrett Dorko; 06-01-2010 at 01:19 PM. |
|
|
|
|
|
#68 |
|
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Minocqua, WI
Age: 34
Posts: 545
Thanks: 18
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
|
Great imagery Barrett!!! Excellent examples of how to professionally and seriously "play" and just what attention and direction/purpose is in this environment....and the link between provider/pt interpersonal connectiveness.....mutual bond and learning.....wow....great stuff....so complete, so consice, so right on and not missing an ounce of expressiveness.......you are my idol for writing for sure......
Awe.....memories..... That song won't come out of my head too easily though....darn it....gotta love the shoe thing though! I don't think I'm gonna let my gray show or start wearing a tie though..... Steph
__________________
Stephanie A. Mikoliczak, DPT And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. - Anaïs Nin |
|
|
|
|
|
#69 | |
|
Arbiter
![]() ![]() Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Nanaimo, BC
Age: 39
Posts: 1,809
Thanks: 1
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
|
Good post today from Jonah Lehrer with insights into childhood creativity and the adulthood decline of that ability.
Quote:
__________________
Eric Matheson, PT |
|
|
|
|
|
|
#70 |
|
Human Primate Social Groomer and Neuroelastician
![]() ![]() Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Weyburn Sask.
Posts: 19,674
Thanks: 1,490
Thanked 3,190 Times in 1,568 Posts
|
Yeah. They do drugs some.
__________________
Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire |
|
|
|
|
|
#71 |
|
Arbiter
![]() ![]() Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 3,462
Thanks: 137
Thanked 148 Times in 68 Posts
|
From the "correlation, not causation" angle it would also seem possible that the inhibitory changes seen in the brain are a result of plasticity brought about by a reduction in use of creativity brought about by the social contructs of what it is to become an adult.
__________________
Cory Blickenstaff, PT, OCS Far and away the best prize that life has to offer is the chance to work hard at work worth doing. ~Theodore Roosevelt My facebook page My youtube channel Twitter Neurotonics: a PT team blog Somasimple on twitter Pain and Neuroscience for Manual Physical Therapists Facebook page |
|
|
|
|
|
#72 |
|
Human Primate Social Groomer and Neuroelastician
![]() ![]() Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Weyburn Sask.
Posts: 19,674
Thanks: 1,490
Thanked 3,190 Times in 1,568 Posts
|
This picture might be interesting in this thread. It depicts circuitry that the brain can use (taking advantage of the fact that there are ten times more descending fibers from cortex to thalamus) to downregulate or otherwise shape incoming/upgoing perceptual input, raw info from thalamic processing of visual, auditory and somatosensory input.
People are somewhat prone to messing up this downregulation/focus in themselves, with common "NMDA receptor antagonists" also known as "dissociative anesthetics." These were what were used to delineate the pathways described in the paper.
__________________
Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire Last edited by Diane; 27-03-2010 at 06:44 PM. |
|
|
|
|
|
#73 |
|
Writer and Clinician
![]() Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio
Age: 61
Posts: 12,668
Thanks: 611
Thanked 1,482 Times in 869 Posts
|
I second Cory's comment.
I'd like to think that the regular discipline of writing keeps my brain plastic. |
|
|
|
|
|
#74 | |
|
Human Primate Social Groomer and Neuroelastician
![]() ![]() Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Weyburn Sask.
Posts: 19,674
Thanks: 1,490
Thanked 3,190 Times in 1,568 Posts
|
The aging brain: Why getting older just might be awesome, from CNN.
Quote:
__________________
Diane www.dermoneuromodulation.com SensibleSolutionsPhysiotherapy HumanAntiGravitySuit blog Neurotonics PT Teamblog Diane Jacobs.com (personal website) Canadian Physiotherapy Pain Science Division (Archived newsletters) Canadian Physiotherapy Association Pain Science Division Facebook page @PainPhysiosCan WCPT PhysiotherapyPainNetwork on Facebook @WCPTPTPN Neuroscience and Pain Science for Manual PTs Facebook page @dfjpt SomaSimple on Facebook @somasimple "Rene Descartes was very very smart, but as it turned out, he was wrong." ~Lorimer Moseley “Comment is free, but the facts are sacred.” ~Charles Prestwich Scott, nephew of founder and editor (1872-1929) of The Guardian , in a 1921 Centenary editorial “If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you really make them think, they'll hate you." ~Don Marquis "In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists" ~Roland Barth "Doubt is not a pleasant mental state, but certainty is a ridiculous one."~Voltaire |
|
|
|
|
| The Following User Says Thank You to Diane For This Useful Post: | Bas Asselbergs (20-06-2012) |
![]() |
| Bookmarks |
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads
|
||||
| Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
| John Quintner's new website, Creative Pain. com | Diane | The Surfing Amigos | 0 | 03-09-2007 06:35 PM |